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Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

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Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#471

Post by tommica »

cableshaft wrote: post #31
Sytten wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we have a couple of particularly vocal CEO here (Quebec, Canada) that are always moaning (sometimes on national television) about how they cannot find talent or that gaming companies "steal their talents". All the while they pay comparatively low salaries when compared to what you get working remote for US business. Worst case is when they IPO, they get a fat exit and the workers get nothing because company don'…

> or that gaming companies "steal their talents" As a former developer in the game industry, I find that difficult to believe. The average career of someone in the game industry is ~3-6 years[1], as devs get chewed up, burnt out, and then discover that by leaving they can (usually) have greater work/life balance for about 50-100%+ more money. I lasted about four years myself, and as much as I'd love to work on games…

Most likely they are just lying

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#472

Post by gravypod »

8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #207

5% speed improvement in my tooling would result in about 0.0000001% improvement in my productivity. first of all, so little of what we do is about the tooling. yes, it's very helpful, but no tool, no matter how good, can tell you how to migrate a monolithic service into microseconds microservices with no downtime and no data loss. maybe if we didn't fuck up the original implementation such things wouldn't be needed b…

> our tooling is so effing slow it needs a 1000x improvement. not in how fast we can write code, just to compile and test the damn stuff

Not just that. Why do we have 30 tools for 30 programming languages. JetBrains has one IDE per language (approximately). What happens when I have a project with two languages? It is a mess.

Don't get me started about build systems. Something like Bazel is greatly needed which would help with the performance and metadata we can extract but we're decades away from demonstrating this to the average programmer.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#473

Post by projektfu »

CydeWeys wrote: post #63
tupac_speedrap wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is not touching a programming language until college a bad thing? Some people just want to make a living out of software engineering and then go home and they aren't sweating over Web 4.0 or whatever we are on now.

18 is awfully old to start learning something for the first time. Imagine saying the same thing about math, reading, or history. It's harder to pick things up when you're older, and it leaves fewer people capable of it. See also: learning human languages.

I think about the first “generation” of computer programmers, many of whom (e.g. Knuth, Richie) wrote software we still use today. At best you could say that it lends itself to a different set of skills. For example, scholars of a second language may know a lot more about its grammar and linguistics than even native professional writers. The native writer might never be able to translate their own work well after learning to speak a second language. There’s probably benefits to growing up “native” in programming, but there’s plenty of examples of people starting later and doing well.

I do know of too many people who have changed careers into programming to write off the likelihood of learning it after 18.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#474

Post by davemp »

nikau wrote: post #375
Dave3of5 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send him this link: https://www.scrum.org/resources/what-is-a-daily-scrum From the horses mouth: "The Daily Scrum is Not a Status Meeting" Or maybe see about getting him certified.

But it always is. They go around the room and everyone has to say something and it ends up being a status update.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

A lot of `Agile` material is just doublespeak meant to sell consulting hours and training.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#476

Post by thebigspacefuck »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #176

I feel like we have so much leverage and don't use it at all. We're still attending stand-ups every day with non programmers telling us when we can and cannot refactor. It's nuts to me that a skilled profession - that not many can do - lets themselves get micro-managed like this. If anyone has read Developer Hegemony , I'm fully on board with that general premise - we start operating like lawyers with partnerships, a…

Erik Meijer has a great talk addressing this https://youtu.be/2u0sNRO-QKQ

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#477

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

bruce343434 wrote: post #260
durnygbur wrote: post #220

As a web/fullstack with over 10 years of experience and based in EU, I don't have this impression at all. Actively applying and interviewing, still receiving absurd requests to resolve various quizzes, teasers, and assignments. Potential salaries top at miserable 70-80k EUR in countries where monthly salary deductions reach 40%. It's better for me to basically seat idle and work on some personal projects.

boohoo, you only earn 70-80k EUR bruto. And you get to live in Europe as well?? You realize the average bruto salary in (west) Europe is around 20-30K EUR? Even lower in east Europe? You are one of the luckiest, most privileged people alive. Yes, there's always a bigger fish/higher salary. But christ, get some perspective.

>boohoo, you only earn 70-80k EUR bruto. And you get to live in Europe as well?? You realize the average bruto salary in (west) Europe is around 20-30K EUR?

Have you looked at property prices in Western EU cities? Those salaries don't buy you anything decent. Meanwhile in places like the bigger cities in Texas, any skilled employee can pay off a big house in no-time.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#478

Post by jghn »

bluGill wrote: post #434
logifail wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's for Devs only to make sure they are not blocked[..] If in the course of one's work one becomes blocked, would one really wait until the following day's stand-up to tell anyone about this? If so then I think both the worker and the company have bigger issues than whether the stand-up itself is a good use of time. The mind boggles.

> If in the course of one's work one becomes blocked, would one really wait until the following day's stand-up to tell anyone about this? There is hard block and soft block. Hard block means you have no clue how to continue and so of course you should get help right away. Soft block means you have ideas and are working on it, but - unknown to you - someone else on the team knows exactly how to solve that problem and…

Right. This sort of blockage and spotting unnecessary/undesired rabbit holes are the value of DSU. It should be a pure dev experience.

However 99% of the time what I see in Real Life is even when it's just devs talking they aren't offering up enough information for either of those to happen. Either imposter syndrome kicks in and they don't want to look stupid in front of their peers, or they're just annoyed at having a meeting. So it just becomes a status update meeting anyways

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#479

Post by picsao »

schwartzworld wrote: post #286
lelanthran wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're still attending stand-ups every day with non programmers telling us when we can and cannot refactor. It's nuts to me that a skilled profession - that not many can do - lets themselves get micro-managed like this. This is actually quite interesting as I was just talking to a few other professionals about this in a social setting. I was the only one in software development. I mentioned how stand-ups work briefl…

> Every single one of them (all professionals, like I said) were adamant that they would leave any position that managed them no better than a burger-flipper. Such entitled garbage. Restaurants manage people much more tightly, and often with very abusive practices and wage theft added in. Stand-up is nothing compared to having an underpaid alcoholic yell at you because you leaned against the wall 2/3 of the way throu…

No post body was provided.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#480

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

rixed wrote: post #461
LAC-Tech wrote: post #176

I feel like we have so much leverage and don't use it at all. We're still attending stand-ups every day with non programmers telling us when we can and cannot refactor. It's nuts to me that a skilled profession - that not many can do - lets themselves get micro-managed like this. If anyone has read Developer Hegemony , I'm fully on board with that general premise - we start operating like lawyers with partnerships, a…

Not only are devs micromanaged by any figure of authority with not much tech knowledge and sometime not even business knowledge and freshly landed from a different industry, if not from school, but devs are also happy to be, quite frankly, considered as mere children. Other skilled professions do not either communicate with memes, have slides and swings in the office (as seen in some Google offices), etc. If part of…

I've said it before that these "copy paste" and "stack overflow" memes reflect badly on us.

People don't realise that others are forming real life opinions on these memes.

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