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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#651

Post by Perseids »

was_a_dev wrote: post #615
mkdirp wrote: post #603

It is clear Google is finally feeling the hurt from adblockers and the like. That means we are winning. Google knows it's not what people want, but they clearly do not care. In my opinion, if you work for Google on things like this, you are equally to blame. You have Google on your CV, you can easily go elsewhere and find a decent job. Having said that, uBlock Origin, and I'm assuming other similar extensions, offer…

Yes a Google employee could go work elsewhere. But is there an equally well paid position at a more ethical company? As far as I can tell, all FANGs are as unethical as each other

I don't understand the reasoning here. How does being paid more justify unethical acting? Especially since you are getting by very very well in the tech industry in general. Isn't that like saying "I'm kicking puppies all day, but it's paying enough to finance the second Lamborghini, so how could I decide against it"?

(If you were referring to moral offsetting, that could indeed work, assuming you donate enough to charities, but your post didn't sound like that.)

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#652

Post by donohoe »

To be clear, this is not new - many of the comments suggest this is some new front by ads/marketeers against privacy. It's not, it's just being used more.

Server-side analytics has been available as an option for decades. You can do server-side GA for a long, long time now.

Its generally a bit more of a pain to setup and and can be a bit most costly (depending on your cache/cdn/hosting setup).

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#653

Post by danparsonson »

was_a_dev wrote: post #615
mkdirp wrote: post #603

It is clear Google is finally feeling the hurt from adblockers and the like. That means we are winning. Google knows it's not what people want, but they clearly do not care. In my opinion, if you work for Google on things like this, you are equally to blame. You have Google on your CV, you can easily go elsewhere and find a decent job. Having said that, uBlock Origin, and I'm assuming other similar extensions, offer…

Yes a Google employee could go work elsewhere. But is there an equally well paid position at a more ethical company? As far as I can tell, all FANGs are as unethical as each other

There are no perfect outcomes in life - if you're going to make an ethical decision then more often than not you'll have to compromise elsewhere. Another example would be cheap goods that come at an ethical and/or environmental cost - you'll usually have to pay extra to avoid those because the bad behaviour is what allows companies to keep costs down.

In some sense, FAANG employees are being paid extra to look the other way.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#654

Post by jonathanstrange »

ATsch wrote: post #643
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one This is reductionist. Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? In a sense. But in another sense, it was broadcasting a better way of being. Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly.

> Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? That's a great example actually, because the reason you can't get anywhere without a car these days is marketing campaigns by the automobile and oil industry. First by suggesting the newly necessary road safety standards and ridiculing people for being in the street without a car ("jaywalking") to the point that it was criminalized, th…

Not to speak of a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car and smoking the right brand of cigarettes.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#655

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

pixeldetracking wrote: post #637
kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevertheless it could be strictly better: the new version gives the OPTION to share less data, whereas the old version does not really give you the option. If you include third party scripts, they can just send the information to third parties directly. Google could also be audited and would then have to prove that they really didn't share ay data, or whatever.

the big difference is that I cannot audit the websites using this new version of GTM (and I don't trust marketers)

This method of the server sharing data with third parties was already possible before.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#656

Post by sgjohnson »

judge2020 wrote: post #189
Teever wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because 90% of households use this system, doesn't that mean society at large agrees that this is an OK thing to have? And if 90% of households have slaves doesn't that mean that society at large agrees that this is an OK thing to have?

Yes. Slavery was OK in the US for a long while. If things hadn't been done to get this changed in the US, it would still be seen as an OK thing to do, and in reality no higher power or law of nature would stop that, even in $current_year - evidenced by how worldwide modern slavery/forced labor is still going strong[0]. My point is that there is no correct moral compass, no general rule as to what behavior is good or…

I find it hard to believe that no Persian Gulf countries made that list. I was under impression that most of the manual labour workforce in places like UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait are slaves imported from the Indian subcontinent.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#657

Post by darebak »

martimarkov wrote: post #569
darebak wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is trying to undermine democracy, atleast in my country.

I feel this would be headline news if correct so do you want to elaborate or is it just a throw away comment with no backing?

Why would it be headline news? It doesn't benefit any big capital.

Most significant incident was definitely in 2012 when Serbia had tight elections on all levels including parliamentary and presidential elections. The problematic part was that German PM at the time congratulated the new president even before the polls were officially closed. I'm not saying that Germany is the EU but various EU commissioners were not much better over the years, praising Serbian EU path days after controversial anti-democratic actions by the government. Lately this has began to change but it's a little bit late, Serbian president consolidated power not unlike Orbán or Putin.

All this has contributed to lowest support for EU ascension among Serbian population in a generation.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#658

Post by verisimi »

sdoering wrote: post #244

Disclaimer: I am a data analyst. I consult companies in regards to ethical data collection. But I also know of black sheep. I don't have a problem with websites measuring what I view, click, add to cart or buy. I want them to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of user experience. And if they do marketing I even want them to be able to see from which source of traffic (aka marketing effort) how many conversions…

"Ethical data collection"!

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#659

Post by slightwinder »

jacquesm wrote: post #269
sdoering wrote: post #244

Disclaimer: I am a data analyst. I consult companies in regards to ethical data collection. But I also know of black sheep. I don't have a problem with websites measuring what I view, click, add to cart or buy. I want them to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of user experience. And if they do marketing I even want them to be able to see from which source of traffic (aka marketing effort) how many conversions…

Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one, and the KPIs by which marketing departments are run are proof positive of that. Nobody starts off with 'what would be the natural limit of our product sales', instead they start off with 'what is the total addressable market and how do we maximize our fraction of that' implying that if…

> Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one

That's very single-minded. Marketing mainly informs about a product, which obviously also works even if you already have the need for it. And it can also help in realizing a specific need which the customer has not pinpointed yet. That's the whole point of acting ethically, to support, not to bait, trap and abuse.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#660

Post by Lamad123 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #541
jacquesm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one, and the KPIs by which marketing departments are run are proof positive of that. Nobody starts off with 'what would be the natural limit of our product sales', instead they start off with 'what is the total addressable market and how do we maximize our fraction of that' implying that if…

> their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one This is reductionist. Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? In a sense. But in another sense, it was broadcasting a better way of being. Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly.

There had always been a need to move people and stuff from point A to point B and move it fast!!!
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