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Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

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Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#71

Post by _moof »

flatiron wrote: post #61
nightski wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many if not dare I say most TurboTax is among the cheapest because it is free. The fact is if your situation is simple (a W-2 and the standard deduction) then you can get away with just about anything. The truth is the IRS doesn't send reports because this country is obsessed with deductions. Your income (which the IRS does know about) is a small factor in the entire equation. Ironically, under Trump's tax cuts,…

If you sold a single stock throughout the year you are excluded from all the free tax filing software I’ve seen. A bunch of my income is in RSUs. For us I need a VM to run TurboTax

> A bunch of my income is in RSUs. For us I need a VM to run TurboTax

No you don't. I've sold stock more years than not and I've never needed to do that.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#72

Post by tootie »

aerosmile wrote: post #40

So many people offering explanations, and yet not a single one of them answers the OP's question. If you're upset that Intuit is engaging in lobbying (as you should be!), that might be an appropriate answer for a different question (eg: why doesn't the IRS just send us their own reports for us to approve?). Again, I am not defending Intuit's involvement in politics, but that's not the answer to the dark patterns ques…

I don't think that really is what OP is asking. The simple answer is that people are very fearful and confused over finances and Intuit offers tools to manage it. And they likely found very high conversion rates by offering these services midway through a very stressful process. Having a company with a strong public reputation offer services to protect your finances is likely very appealing.

I think it's also unfair to say the only standing between us and free file is lobbying. Lobbying doesn't set policy. Congress can still do whatever they want. And it's not like Intuit is keeping free file secret. The IRS hasn't built it. Doing so would cost money, create new bureaucracy and likely face a distrustful public who would rather pay a company then trust the IRS.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#73

Post by Kye »

rootusrootus wrote: post #49
reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #2

They are frustrated, they're simply not aware that Intuit and other players have exercised regulatory capture to make it so awful and blame "the government" since the IRS is the face of it. Other modernized nations have nothing like this insanity, often sending people yearly reports they can accept (since for most cases they are accurate) or send in amendments. This is far from the only issue that business interests…

> Intuit and other players I hate to defend Intuit, but this is backwards. It is more accurately "Other players and Intuit" where "Other players" means the Republican Party. Thanks to efforts by Grover Norquist, the GOP is fundamentally opposed to making it easier for the IRS to collect taxes. Intuit's lobbying efforts are practically meaningless in comparison.

I think you're trying to draw a distinction where there isn't one. Who do you think lobbyists lobby?

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#74

Post by beardog »

monocasa wrote: post #47
jrockway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. The problem the IRS is trying to solve is collecting taxes on money they don't know about. For example, if you sell illegal drugs, you should be paying tax on that income. But obviously you don't report to the government the amount of illegal drugs you sell. So they can't just send you a bill for your taxes. It is od…

Drug dealers aren't stupid enough to be reporting their incomes to the IRS, they're just getting an extra criminal charge when they get caught. It's not the IRS caring about losing revenue, but lobbying from tax firms that's the problem.

There's a corner-case to this corner case which is marijuana sales. Legal state vendors are technically violating federal law but the IRS still expects a cut from them, and the ones wanting to stay in good standing are certainly reporting.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#75

Post by monocasa »

beardog wrote: post #74
monocasa wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug dealers aren't stupid enough to be reporting their incomes to the IRS, they're just getting an extra criminal charge when they get caught. It's not the IRS caring about losing revenue, but lobbying from tax firms that's the problem.

There's a corner-case to this corner case which is marijuana sales. Legal state vendors are technically violating federal law but the IRS still expects a cut from them, and the ones wanting to stay in good standing are certainly reporting.

And, staying in context to the discussion, the IRS already knows about all of that from these companies' public state level filings.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#76

Post by mwint »

SilasX wrote: post #69
flatiron wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sold a single stock throughout the year you are excluded from all the free tax filing software I’ve seen. A bunch of my income is in RSUs. For us I need a VM to run TurboTax

I used FreeTaxUSA with a Wealthfront account that had stock trading. Wasn’t charged.

FreeTaxUSA is strangely under-mentioned on these threads. I’ve used it the last couple years with a complex-ish situation. Not a single complaint.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#77

Post by monocasa »

rootusrootus wrote: post #49
reincarnate0x14 wrote: post #2

They are frustrated, they're simply not aware that Intuit and other players have exercised regulatory capture to make it so awful and blame "the government" since the IRS is the face of it. Other modernized nations have nothing like this insanity, often sending people yearly reports they can accept (since for most cases they are accurate) or send in amendments. This is far from the only issue that business interests…

> Intuit and other players I hate to defend Intuit, but this is backwards. It is more accurately "Other players and Intuit" where "Other players" means the Republican Party. Thanks to efforts by Grover Norquist, the GOP is fundamentally opposed to making it easier for the IRS to collect taxes. Intuit's lobbying efforts are practically meaningless in comparison.

The Democrats are also opposed to simplifying the tax system. Some of this is lobbying; some of this is the philosophical approach the third wayers running the party have to fixing .gov with more rules rather than less.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#79

Post by bitwize »

sleepydog wrote: post #33

You would think there would be more political will for a government to make taxation as smooth and painless as possible for its citizens. I don't hate paying income tax because I "lose" money, I hate it because the process is a massive pain in the ass, and if I make a mistake (how can you not), I risk being fined, or worse. Turbo Tax also provides some kind of service to help you if the IRS comes after you for some e…

Under most conditions, the IRS just wants its money. If you make a mistake on your return, they will notify you by mail and give you a number to call to get things cleared up. If you don't call the number within the allotted time period, and don't pay what you owe in a timely fashion, THEN they start hitting you with penalties.

There are plenty of failure modes to this process that could potentially get bad, but in general the IRS wants to give you a chance to settle honest mistakes amicably, and only really "go after" you with tax evasion charges if you persistently avoid filing and paying. They're tax collectors, not cartoon villains.

Sauce: Made a mistake on my taxes once, got contacted by the IRS, followed the procedures to correct it.

Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?

#80

Post by irrational »

aerosmile wrote: post #40

So many people offering explanations, and yet not a single one of them answers the OP's question. If you're upset that Intuit is engaging in lobbying (as you should be!), that might be an appropriate answer for a different question (eg: why doesn't the IRS just send us their own reports for us to approve?). Again, I am not defending Intuit's involvement in politics, but that's not the answer to the dark patterns ques…

You might want to try freetaxusa. I tried them last year and really like them.
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