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The Dubai Debt Trap

economist.com

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Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#181

Post by kmeisthax »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #164
friedturkey wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man people really see some blog post about Japanese law by a person who doesn’t speak the language and think it’s some 1984 style country. In all honesty you can basically apologize out of a lot of crimes and police generally don’t bother with anything else unless there’s video evidence, they catch you in the act, or you’re a high profile person involved in a high profile act. Just never get caught with drugs in your…

What do the Japanese have against drugs?

Japanese drug prosecution is about as strict as American child porn prosecution, with the same para-judicial stigma about possession of it. If you are caught with drugs in Japan, you are going to be doing hard time, and even when you get out of jail people will not want to associate with you. In the rare case where the police prosecute you without evidence, you're still going to wind up spending months in a holding cell waiting for exoneration, and have to explain to everyone in the meantime that you were falsely accused of drug possession.

(The inverse is also true: Japan is rather lax about CSAM possession, about to the same degree as America is lax about weed possession. It's technically a crime but most people caught will be let off with a fine and a warning.)

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#183

Post by mbg721 »

rayiner wrote: post #170
laurent92 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are afraid of the lack of rule of law, there are not many countries we need to avoid. Japan has a 99.995% of inculpation after their police interview. And that has to do with the fact that their interview can lawfully last for 22 days, renewable. You can’t even avoid USA: 95% of jailmates are there upon self-admission of guilt without external proof, ie. without objective proof besides self-incrimination.

You’re incorrect as to the US, and I suspect as to Japan as well. Lots of criminals in America plead guilty, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no “external proof” of guilt. Cops are lazy and criminals are dumb. So what you end up with in nearly all cases is that cops make arrests in easy cases with tons of evidence. Confronted with the video tape, cell phone records, etc., the accused then pleads guilty. Rarely do y…

At what point would you waive the right to a trial-by-jury? I think about that from time to time; if I'm accused of something, what crimes are less sympathetic to my peers than to a judge?

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#184

Post by feupan »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #169
spiderfarmer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

Are you western? I get really bored hearing someone talking about us like this. While your knowledge about Arab countries comes from an all-inclusive trip to Tunisia or something. The west always plays a big role in keeping dictators all over the place, who don't care about education or anything other than their chair. People are ignorant and if you look fancy or different, even if you are native, they will look at y…

What a weird comment full of assumptions and hatred.

Nothing in the parent comment warrants what you said. What happens in practice is that being white in poorer countries makes you stand out and sometimes this comes with negative feelings of being unwanted there.

This is just a fact being told and it doesn’t justify a “you guys and your politics” comment. It’s just to point out, perhaps, that some places are more welcoming of foreigners than others.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#185

Post by pcardoso »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #47
JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else.

We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script.

Of course, YMMV.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#186

Post by tim333 »

mbg721 wrote: post #67
moralestapia wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>no one who moves to Dubai for a middle class job will ever experience any of the things you’ve listed Sorry, but that is just not true. You're always one mistake away from losing all your rights and going through a miserable experience. This could happen to anyone who is basically not royalty or extremely high ranks, I've experienced it first-hand. Everyone knows this, so people are quite afraid to mess up, at any l…

How does it compare to Singapore in that aspect? I get the same impression there when people talk about how it all works really well until it doesn't.

Singapore is much more laid back. Usually the worst that will happen with foreigners is they deport them. Apart from drug dealing which carries a death penalty but they only do that when the person is guilty so don't deal drugs there!

I thought they were quite long suffering with "Briton arrested for not wearing a facemask in Singapore' because he said he didn't believe in them and wouldn't do it. I think he was jailed a couple of weeks and kicked out https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9864365/Briton-arre...

They can be a bit harsh with asking foreigners to leave if they have a work permit and lose their job. I think you get 30 days to go which is a bit of an upheaval if you are fired.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#187

Post by Teracotage »

JohnGB wrote: post #7

One of many reasons that I will never enter the UAE. There is no rule of law, and so no protection if anyone decides to charge you for anything. I've read of women being raped and then being charged for reporting it which essentially admits sex outside of marriage, or of foreigners who get driven into by a local and then charged as if they were the ones being reckless. That's not even going into their de facto slaver…

For those who did not bother to read the article, it is about fraud during the financial crisis. I feel sad for Cornelius and wish he is set free. As a resident of Dubai for 30 years, I am always curious to learn things that I may have missed about 'my city', yet this article is misleading in many ways, its few first paragraph where it states that Ryan Cornelius 'thought the authorities had simply made a mistake;' Really? He has taken a loan to complete a project in Dubai yet he took the money for a project in Pakistan. Later the writer says'Cornelius’s business forged invoices for items such as furniture and building materials to match the investment capital being funnelled to the Plantation. A later civil case, brought by dib in Britain, concluded that Cornelius was “fully implicated” in the creation of fabricated invoices to perpetrate a fraud'. The Economist used to be a decent publication with great journalism, unfortunately that is not the case anymore.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#188

Post by rsj_hn »

pcardoso wrote: post #185
spiderfarmer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After some bad experiences I will never visit an Arab country again. They'll have to do something against the sexism, constant heckling and the bad state of law before I even think about going there. Or they can do whatever they want, they don't have to change just for me. I'm 6 ft 6 and I have a blonde wife who's just a bit smaller. Even though we behaved very polite and dressed like locals it was like we had a big…

I must say I visited Jordan with my wife in 2020, right before the pandemic and I had a wonderful experience. No heckling, we felt safe all the time, people didn't rip us off, and when looked at we felt it was more curiosity than anything else. We loved it. I'm learning arabic on Duolingo now because I got curious about the script. Of course, YMMV.

Did you see Petra? How was it?

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#189

Post by aziom23 »

retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

> I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth

This is an extremely privileged way to think, and I am guessing, you are from a western country. You have had good access to food, and education while growing up. Just a guess... Families, who are on the borderline, or are deep in poverty, in countries such as Pakistan, India, or Bangladesh, go over there for opportunity. They will drive taxis, or work in construction, to send money back, and the remittance is massive. In the billions. It has helped people I know personally get out of poverty, and the children are now being educated in UK universities. These are people who grew up in South Asian villages without much hope.

I grew up in a country next to UAE, and it gave me excellent education in one of the best private schools around, exposure to many cultures, and I am now living in the US based on my life there.

But then again, I do hear from Africans in Southern Africa, why any minority would step foot into the US based on what they see in the news, and yet we have many risking their lives to cross a hostile desert region.

Re: The Dubai Debt Trap

#190

Post by feupan »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #17
retube wrote: post #5

All I ever hear is horror stories about this place: environmental destruction, structural racism, serious abuse of human rights, culturally hyper conservative, corrupt legal system, plus it's absurdly hot. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily go there, seems like hell on earth.

Saudi Arabia is considerably worse on every aspect, it just gets even less press.

To be fair, SA isn’t touted as a dream destination for tourists, but quite the opposite: Tourists can’t enter.

Dubai sells this luxury destination dream literally built by slaves.

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