Why are young people having so little sex? (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#181

Post by Throwaway8373 » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

beepbooptheory wrote: post #128

Throwaway8373 wrote: post #100

One of my greatest problems is knowing what is right and wrong when courting for a mate. The rules are changing so rapidly that what I learned in sex-ed is outdated, and not even talking about what my parents could teach me. The public discourse on sex is also mostly negative and discouraging. And this is what we meditate on a daily basis -- when you hear more about women feeling the need to wear, well weapons, when…

Its doesn't have to completely be a challenge or game like that. Or, if it is, you will need to read an entire body of literature for each separate person you want to get to know. When it comes to romantic relationships, the difference between every single person is on a universal magnitude, there is no way you can generally prepare. There is not a ground to stand on with these things unfortunately, there is just the…

It is definitely easy to go down the road of relativazation.

* On reading: For most people we need better role models than our parents. For sexuality this is probably even ore true. * Every person is not so different. It would appear that sexual dreams are in variation of 10 different "universal" ones. * Studying the underlying dynamics is not about trying hard, indeed it is the contrary. You probably don't even know why the comment "Don't try to hard, just listen and be patient." is merited? If you read you will ;)

You would probably be one of these people who find it natural to talk with women, court them, etc. Congratulations. It is like a heiress telling her poor friends not to study hard to get a job -- just get money from your parents!

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#182

Post by danShumway » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

mathteddybear wrote: post #124

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #44

ITT: Folks quickly contributing their "definite reason" of why this is happening which is also covered in incredible detail and with tons of nuance in the article. Seriously, read the article, it's good.

Did you get to the part about choking? To me, the article seems just a long collections of folks contributing speculations. I might be biased because the wife of my cousing-in-law is researching these topics scientifically

Agreed. There's very little actual science in this article, it just jumps around a bunch. It's peppered with phrases like:

- "Many -- or all -- of these things may be true."

- "Let’s consider this lure for a moment."

- "I can’t know that they were representative, though I did seek out people with a range of experiences."

- "Some observers have suggested..."

There's a huge amount of positing that something may possibly be a cause, often at best backed up with research that shows that it exists (as opposed to evidence that there's a strong correlation or any kind of scientific testing to indicate a causal relationship). There's also a ton of "person X says Y in their new book, could they be right?".

I don't understand where the praise for this article is coming from, if this is actually where the research on dating behavior is right now, then it's pseudoscience. I honestly would have expected HN to be a lot more critical of this, I've seen articles with less conjecture than this one get torn to shreds on here.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#183

Post by Throwaway8373 » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #125

Throwaway8373 wrote: post #100

One of my greatest problems is knowing what is right and wrong when courting for a mate. The rules are changing so rapidly that what I learned in sex-ed is outdated, and not even talking about what my parents could teach me. The public discourse on sex is also mostly negative and discouraging. And this is what we meditate on a daily basis -- when you hear more about women feeling the need to wear, well weapons, when…

Treat them with respect, eye contact, don't make about sex and generally don't be a dick. Usually works in all social circumstances.

It is easy only to talk in abstract terms. Don't be a dick -- what does it mean? Nobody knows, unless they do. Some well intended people ended up in very bad sitatuations while always thinking they were not dicks.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#184

Post by amriksohata » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

Why would an individual spend money on clothes, meals etc. to get spend time with a partner going through dating first base, second base etc, when they can just do it all online?

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#185

Post by rthomas6 » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

atlgator wrote: post #137

rthomas6 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this claim? Specifically that women aren't having less sex too, and that the decline is almost entirely due to men. It's very possible for women to be more selective than in the past, and also everyone being less promiscuous overall.

Can't speak for the quantity, but didn't the big analysis from OKCupid determine that 80% of women are fighting over the top 20% of men? The data was published in a book called Dataclysm by Christian Rudder.

Right, this speaks to women being more selective than in the past, but says nothing in either direction about promiscuity levels overall. Women could be simultaneously more selective than in the past, and less promiscuous. Or more promiscuous. That data doesn't tell us.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#186

Post by danShumway » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

codechad wrote: post #10

djohnston wrote: post #6

Maybe sex isn't that great compared to new activities from a reward center perspective. Maybe the prevalence of circumcision in the US could explain why sex is less enticing than these other new activities.

Sex is the peak of human connectivity and intimacy. It is literally the reason you are here today. If you aren't good at sex or have bad sex, practice. That includes becoming physically fit to increase your stamina and strength during sex with your partner.

> Sex is the peak of human connectivity and intimacy.

This philosophy is a recipe for a disastrous relationship. Every single person I've ever talked to in a long-running successful marriage has told me that sex is not a substitute for emotional intimacy, and that emotional intimacy is the core of their marriage that survives even as they age and even as they start to have sex less.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#187

Post by PaulHoule » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #70

caeril wrote: post #14

It's burying the lede to suggest that young people are having less sex. The salient fact is that it's young men who are skewing this average down. Women, on average, are doing perfectly fine in the sexual marketplace, along with the top 10-15% of men. edit: The above was my reflexive response to the headline. Now that I've actually read the article, I have to say that the article is very good and quite comprehensive,…

This looks like the start of an incel complaint. You really think that 1/8 of men are sexing up 8x women, and "taking your opportunity" or something? In reality women are looking for partners too. No one owes anyone anything, just be a decent person, try to get over your expectations of the world owing you something.

Ought to be a trigger warning for that one. ;-)

I was bullied in elementary school which gave me a high sensitivity to social rejection. I was really afraid of dying alone in high school. Although I was not treated cruelly as a teen I heard a lot of "be yourself", "be a decent person", "it will get better in the sweet bye and bye".

That was the beginning of seven years of despair which still affect me decades later. In particular, a lot of guys seem to focus on "being a decent person" and find that what they get is a lot of listening to women complain about their bad boyfriends. (I didn't particularly fall for that --it but I have a tenant who tells me all sorts of things that women told him that he shouldn't be repeating to me.)

I think a lot of men are in situations where they see no path forward. The blackpill incel stuff is poison but I know I felt absolutely alone (couldn't get any recognition from adults and teens that I had a problem) when I was a teenager and if Wheat Waffles had been around back then I probably would have thought "here is a movement of people like me, for the first time I feel like somebody hears me"

(My son had a friend fall under Wheat's spell and he disconnected from my son Scientology-style because my son was taller than him and was concerned my son would "heightmog" him.)

Listen or not you're going to hear more and more from people who steal the vocabulary and discursive techniques of the incels.

If people pay attention they might discover the magic keys to solving problems like "blacks vs the police", "residential segregation of racial minorities", "women getting paid less than men" and "i can't afford healthcare" that never go away -- all of them have a structure similar to the incel problem in that people are making a demand which could seem reasonable in the abstract that becomes unreasonable or unsatisfiable when you expect that some particular person in some particular situation do something for you.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#188

Post by rthomas6 » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

embeng4096 wrote: post #127

rthomas6 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this claim? Specifically that women aren't having less sex too, and that the decline is almost entirely due to men. It's very possible for women to be more selective than in the past, and also everyone being less promiscuous overall.

This WaPo article and specifically the chart entitled "Young men driving the decline in sex": https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame... I read the chart as indicating a jump from ~15% to 28% of men 18-30 not having sex, and women from ~13% to 18%. So perhaps the simultaneous rise could be due to factors like less promiscuity overall or more selectivity, but I find that GP's reasoning is plausibl…

So, to me, this implies women being more selective of partners than in the past accounts for some of the overall decrease, but not all.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#189

Post by k__ » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

cjbgkagh wrote: post #180

k__ wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say there are any culture or gender wars going on. I think, it's simply the patriarchy is crumbling. With virtually mandatory monogamy, women had to see where to get a mate after the "top 20%" were gone, now they simply share the "good ones", whatever that means. The other side was obviously, the "bottom 80%" of men had to put in less effort, because they just had to wait for the women who didn't get "a go…

Young men were already low social status, and now they’re even lower. Often judged on immutable characteristics like hight. In my opinion none of what you are proposing will happen. There will be a substantial uncontrolled reaction. In my opinion men and women need each other and if men withdraw and stop trying women will also suffer.

I had the impression it was the other way around.

Women judged on appearence and men judged on financial success.

Re: Why are young people having so little sex? (2018)

#190

Post by halo37253 » Fri, Feb 18, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #157

halo37253 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to your kids, everyone should want to set them up for life. My goal even from a young age before kids was to build generational wealth. We live in a world where money makes a big difference in lifestyle. Living Paycheck to Paycheck is a shitty way to live life. I did plenty of that early in life, and grew up in a house hold that lived paycheck to paycheck. I don't want that for my kids.

Way to miss the point. You could be the King of England for all I care, if your relationship with your wife depends on how much you make compared to her, you have a lot (a lot!) of soul searching to do.

Actually me and my wife are both 6 figure earners. I used a common example for young couples where the wife normally earns half if not less than their partner. And while there was a time in my life this was the case, my wife makes close to what I make. And we love each other. But with kids and day to day activities, there isn't enough time in the day. You'd be surprised how much you don't even feel the need for sex when you have so much other enjoyment in life.

Between us working hard so we can retire early in life, we could stop working at the age of 45 if we wanted and our investments would still grow while living off them, I have plenty of enjoyment at home after work. I love cooking, I love engineering and wooding in my shop, I love playing video games, I love programming small little gadgets, I love to learn. Hell I even love to catch up on a TV show with the Wife, or play some Mario Party as a family.

We're in bed by 10 most nights, and I'm up before 6. Me and the Wife don't need to have sex every night. Sure that was a thing years ago, but 15 years in once a week makes up happy.

I get more enjoyment teaching my daughter how to design and build something from start to finish, or playing some Minecraft with my Boys. Making Something for dinner we've never had, etc. My priorates are in the correct space.