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App Store: I'm out

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Re: App Store: I'm out

#41

Post by unalone »

mattmaroon wrote: post #35
dcurtis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android FTF. I used it, and it was pretty terrible. If you think the iPhone is slow...

Maybe we should give it a chance to launch and iterate a bit.

You're talking to an audience of people that decide something's win or fail the day it comes out. Good chance being persuasive here, even if your point is accurate.

And comparing these two services is stupid. They're entirely different, they have two different business strategies. Apple and Google are not competing directly, and that'll be reflected in the developers who flock to either side (or to both).

Re: App Store: I'm out

#42

Post by apu »

henning wrote: post #37
axod wrote: post #29

This is getting a little boring. Obviously Apple are going to reject apps that are a little too close to their existing apps, or might cause offense, or dumb down their product. They built it, they own the ecosystem, so they get to decide. Don't like it? Write a webapp instead.

That's stupid. If someone makes a better podcatcher than Apple for the iPhone, the iPhone does podcasting better than before which sells more iPhones, which makes Apple richer. I don't see why it's such a threat. Any time you implement a feature for a product you have to do it in a way that can't possibly please everyone. If you let your developers implement alternative versions, it's conceivable you could get close…

That might be the logical conclusion, but I don't think Apple sees it that way. They've never been very big on this "third-party" stuff...

Re: App Store: I'm out

#43

Post by zenspider »

thorax wrote: post #19

Well, Apple has already gotten some of our money. We purchased some Macs solely to develop an iPhone application for one of our endeavors. Now, though-- given the lag with even getting approval (so we can get to the stage of installing a test app on test phones), we're rapidly losing excitement about investing in the project. And then there's this kicker-- once our team spends time developing it, there's a chance it…

"He doesn't really mention in his post the fun fact that you've got to pay a fee so Apple can review/reject your app. Definitely not feeling warm and fuzzy about the investment so far."

You'd rather they get flooded with an absolute ton of crap? The fee isn't _that_ much and it separates the boys from the men, so to speak.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#44

Post by zenspider »

henning wrote: post #37
axod wrote: post #29

This is getting a little boring. Obviously Apple are going to reject apps that are a little too close to their existing apps, or might cause offense, or dumb down their product. They built it, they own the ecosystem, so they get to decide. Don't like it? Write a webapp instead.

That's stupid. If someone makes a better podcatcher than Apple for the iPhone, the iPhone does podcasting better than before which sells more iPhones, which makes Apple richer. I don't see why it's such a threat. Any time you implement a feature for a product you have to do it in a way that can't possibly please everyone. If you let your developers implement alternative versions, it's conceivable you could get close…

Someone is always going to bitch about apple. period.

Hypothetical example: What if apple is already working on a better podcasting app that works on the iphone, yet they _don't_ reject any apps?

Then, when their podcasting app comes out and kills off the competitors (usually because it is free--but also because they write damn good apps), then some author is going to bitch about how apple targeted them and killed their app. Sounding like that whiny sandvox guy doesn't do anyone any good.

Maybe... just maybe... this is the better alternative.

Personally, I'm going to write the quickest/smallest app I can that gets the 1.0 beta 1 idea into form. I'll apply with that. If I get accepted, great. I'll pump out a lot of releases getting it to 1.0 final. If not? I didn't lose that much time/effort.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#45

Post by thorax »

zenspider wrote: post #43
thorax wrote: post #19

Well, Apple has already gotten some of our money. We purchased some Macs solely to develop an iPhone application for one of our endeavors. Now, though-- given the lag with even getting approval (so we can get to the stage of installing a test app on test phones), we're rapidly losing excitement about investing in the project. And then there's this kicker-- once our team spends time developing it, there's a chance it…

"He doesn't really mention in his post the fun fact that you've got to pay a fee so Apple can review/reject your app. Definitely not feeling warm and fuzzy about the investment so far." You'd rather they get flooded with an absolute ton of crap? The fee isn't _that_ much and it separates the boys from the men, so to speak.

Nah, I'm not opposed to that, really. Ideally they'd have enough reviewers to handle that, though. A somewhat-non-profit like Mozilla handles it for Firefox extensions.

For us, the annoyance is just that we have to wait on them for multiple steps in the process when there's no guarantee they'll even post a produced app to the store.

We'll hedge our bets, though, and make a slightly useful app to see how annoying the process is, and wait for our larger app afterwards.

So far, we've been waiting over a week just to get into the program far enough to be able to legitimately put the app on our test iPhones. The app we're working on is worthless in the simulator, so to even debug it we need to get it on the phone itself. Waiting a few weeks to even debug your app is a bit demotivating. I whine here partly as a word of caution to anyone on a tight schedule.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#46

Post by abl »

Reminds me of Apple's early days, when they didn't have an easy way for third parties to license their apps, their OS ended up without quality applications, and then Windows 3.1 ate their lunch... Anyone remember AmiPro?

Re: App Store: I'm out

#47

Post by ryan-allen »

zenspider wrote: post #43
thorax wrote: post #19

Well, Apple has already gotten some of our money. We purchased some Macs solely to develop an iPhone application for one of our endeavors. Now, though-- given the lag with even getting approval (so we can get to the stage of installing a test app on test phones), we're rapidly losing excitement about investing in the project. And then there's this kicker-- once our team spends time developing it, there's a chance it…

"He doesn't really mention in his post the fun fact that you've got to pay a fee so Apple can review/reject your app. Definitely not feeling warm and fuzzy about the investment so far." You'd rather they get flooded with an absolute ton of crap? The fee isn't _that_ much and it separates the boys from the men, so to speak.

We already are being flooded with absolute crap! The store is full of mostly toys and 'concept' apps. And to think you have to pay for some of those (remember the several incarnations of 'iPhone Flash Light' both paid and unpaid?). I hope Apple fail to dominate this area of the market as they treat both their end users and developers with the utmost disdain.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#48

Post by martythemaniak »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #40
martythemaniak wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a critical point that too many people here miss. If Apple wants its phone to be a "smartphone" and compete against another smartphones, then it will be compared to its current peers, NOT against cheapo feature phones and definitely not feature phones from 5 years ago. When you do start comparing the iPhone to its current competitors, none of what you said makes sense. To go over it quickly. -You can use SMS g…

In simple words. There is no standard in the mobile industry for application developers. You have to tackle iphone and bb differetnly. You have to tackle ATT and Verizon differently. My point is not that Apple is more open than others. That still does not make it standard. Yes you can build apps that polls a server etc..., but again when building apps, there is no standard. Iphone apps do not work on Symbian phones.…

That's kinda like complaining that there is no standard in the desktop software industry, because you know.. UNIX developers and Windows developers don't have the same API. That's rather silly.

Quite simply, there are two tiers in the mobile industry now: smartphones and feature phones. On the feature phone tier, having to jump through bullshit hoops was and still is standard - getting certificates from the carrier, worrying about SMS, etc. On the smartphone, there are far, far fewer limitations - companies like Palm and RIM don't shutdown apps, and the carrier's control does not extend beyond perhaps discriminating types of data traffic (ie, email vs 3rd party data).

Apple's SDK policies make the iPhone far closer to the restrictions feature phones have than to smartphones the iPhone is actually sold against (ie BB Bold).

oh, and: http://myhowto.org/java/j2me/22-sending-and-receiving-gsm-sm...

Pretty simple, no?

Re: App Store: I'm out

#49

Post by ashu »

thorax wrote: post #45
zenspider wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He doesn't really mention in his post the fun fact that you've got to pay a fee so Apple can review/reject your app. Definitely not feeling warm and fuzzy about the investment so far." You'd rather they get flooded with an absolute ton of crap? The fee isn't _that_ much and it separates the boys from the men, so to speak.

Nah, I'm not opposed to that, really. Ideally they'd have enough reviewers to handle that, though. A somewhat-non-profit like Mozilla handles it for Firefox extensions. For us, the annoyance is just that we have to wait on them for multiple steps in the process when there's no guarantee they'll even post a produced app to the store. We'll hedge our bets, though, and make a slightly useful app to see how annoying the…

Why not jailbreak? It's trivial, pretty much risk-free (you can always fully restore) and you are doing it only for testing this app -- and only until Apple approves you. You can at least make sure you get your app all debugged by the time other things fall in place!

Re: App Store: I'm out

#50

Post by RobGR »

mattmaroon wrote: post #14

Android FTW?

Has anyone here played with an OpenMoko ? I have examined one, but have so far avoided putting out the cash to buy one.

I have always disliked the cultist and elitist aspects of Job's company. I see Apple as no better, and possibly worse, than Gate's company.

I think, that if you are trying to make money to live the next 3 years comfortably, writing iPhone apps may be the way to go; but if you want there to be a world where your great-grand kids live comfortably writing apps for an open tri-corder from their apartments in a Stanford torus at one of the Earth-Moon Lagrangian points, then you write apps for the OpenMoko and feed yourself with a day job.

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