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App Store: I'm out

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Re: App Store: I'm out

#21

Post by martythemaniak »

Apple WILL change their tune, and the more users and developers complain and pressure them, the faster they will change their tune.

We know Apple's excuses ("we can't let you have open access, because someone might bad apps and we need to protect our users from themselves") are bullshit. Their competitors have had more open SDKs for years and none of Apple's doomsday scenarios have come to pass.

I'm personally hoping that when Adroid comes out with its own app store and open platform, it will finally convince people to stop excusing Apple's behaviour.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#22

Post by ks »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #4

Anytime your work needs approval to be live, you are in big trouble. The problem is not Apple. The issue is the mobile industry. Everyone screams the Iphone is an open platform, but if you truly look at it, it is not significantly different. You still have to go to an approval process and your application cannot compete with any Apple applications or future applications.

You don't need approval for Symbian, Java or Windows Mobile applications. I doubt anyone would develop for Symbian if the only way to install applications was through a "Nokia store".

I'm not saying that what Apple does is bad, because a company can do whatever they want (so long as they're not a de facto monopoly). But it seems to be more of an Apple problem, and not a problem with the mobile industry.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#24

Post by rokhayakebe »

martythemaniak wrote: post #20
rokhayakebe wrote: post #4

Anytime your work needs approval to be live, you are in big trouble. The problem is not Apple. The issue is the mobile industry. Everyone screams the Iphone is an open platform, but if you truly look at it, it is not significantly different. You still have to go to an approval process and your application cannot compete with any Apple applications or future applications.

You're wrong, it is Apple. And not only are you wrong, you are provably wrong. Go ahead and write a pull-my-finger app for one of Apple's competitors (Blackberry or WinMo) and no one will stop you from releasing it on your target devices.

The problem is not apple. The problem is the entire mobile industry

About 5 years ago I set out to do my first mobile startup. Using RSS to SMS to provide near real time traffic updates. In the beginning the problem was to get a shortcode and SMS gateway provider. No possible way for a startup with little money to directly hook to the carrier gateway.

Then I said forget it, let's morphe it a bit and distribute games for small time developers. Cool. I already knew about 6 or 7 games developers who committed to let the startup distribute their games, but we quickly found the pain because some carriers did not allow downloads unless you went thorugh their certification program.

I also built a mobile marketing tool to help merchants geo-target their offerings. Cool. But qucikly enough you find that you have to continuously pay for each SMS, hence there was no sealing (at least not at the stage I was in) and you had to depend on a third party that can shut you down at any given time. Heck even Twitter had its service turned down by T-mobile for a short amount of time.

Anyway you go in the mobile industry, save one, you are dealing with restrictions. That is why I am saying the problem is not JUST Apple. It is the industry in general. If you create apps you will sooner or later hit a barrier. In one case the barrier will be Apple, in an other it will be your SMS gateway provider, in an other it will be T-Mobile, in another it will be BlackBerry certificates.

That is not to say there is no way around. There are applications that are truly independent of carrier rules or mobile platforms. Applications that you write once and they work on every cell phones, every carrier. It is just that developers want to bet on their apps being approved all the way to the top, or they think that if they hit a tiny 1% of the market they will make it big.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#25

Post by rokhayakebe »

tptacek wrote: post #8
rokhayakebe wrote: post #4

Anytime your work needs approval to be live, you are in big trouble. The problem is not Apple. The issue is the mobile industry. Everyone screams the Iphone is an open platform, but if you truly look at it, it is not significantly different. You still have to go to an approval process and your application cannot compete with any Apple applications or future applications.

Carriers had nothing to do with this decision, just like they didn't kill "pull my finger" app.

I was not reffering to this particular case. I was reffering to applications being shut down left and right by Apple, T-Mobile, Blackberry etc...

The mobile industry roadmap is fundamentally hard to comprehend and if you play it in long enough you will not be surprised when Apple shuts down app A or app B because you knew from the get go that this illusion of the Iphone being open is just that.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#26

Post by andreyf »

samwise wrote: post #12

Their tune will change in a couple months when android comes out.

A friend who played with the new Android device say that there's no way it's comparable to the iPhone... but yes, this one device isn't what Android is about.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#27

Post by martythemaniak »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #24
martythemaniak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong, it is Apple. And not only are you wrong, you are provably wrong. Go ahead and write a pull-my-finger app for one of Apple's competitors (Blackberry or WinMo) and no one will stop you from releasing it on your target devices.

The problem is not apple. The problem is the entire mobile industry About 5 years ago I set out to do my first mobile startup. Using RSS to SMS to provide near real time traffic updates. In the beginning the problem was to get a shortcode and SMS gateway provider. No possible way for a startup with little money to directly hook to the carrier gateway. Then I said forget it, let's morphe it a bit and distribute games…

This is a critical point that too many people here miss. If Apple wants its phone to be a "smartphone" and compete against another smartphones, then it will be compared to its current peers, NOT against cheapo feature phones and definitely not feature phones from 5 years ago.

When you do start comparing the iPhone to its current competitors, none of what you said makes sense. To go over it quickly.

-You can use SMS gateways that charge about 4cents a text.

-You don't have to use SMS at all. You can make an app that either polls a server or listens for pushed data.

- "Blackberry certificates" are an $20 ID, which you only need to use internal APIs. At no point will RIM place any restrictions on what you can do with its powerful SDK.

If you set out to develop a BB app, and no point will you have to worry about your app making through some byzantine bureaucracy and whether or not it can be brought to market. It'll be a good day when you can say the same of the iPhone.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#28

Post by axod »

samwise wrote: post #12

Their tune will change in a couple months when android comes out.

No one outside the tech world knows or cares what Android is. Unless it's on a damn sexy phone it won't make a dent.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#29

Post by axod »

This is getting a little boring. Obviously Apple are going to reject apps that are a little too close to their existing apps, or might cause offense, or dumb down their product.

They built it, they own the ecosystem, so they get to decide.

Don't like it? Write a webapp instead.

Re: App Store: I'm out

#30

Post by jonknee »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #25
tptacek wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carriers had nothing to do with this decision, just like they didn't kill "pull my finger" app.

I was not reffering to this particular case. I was reffering to applications being shut down left and right by Apple, T-Mobile, Blackberry etc... The mobile industry roadmap is fundamentally hard to comprehend and if you play it in long enough you will not be surprised when Apple shuts down app A or app B because you knew from the get go that this illusion of the Iphone being open is just that.

The difference being you don't have to be on the official carrier deck to sell an app for BlackBerry/Symbian/Windows Mobile. You have to be on the App Store to sell an iPhone app.
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