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Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

bbc.com

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Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#91

Post by michaelt »

tyleo wrote: post #3

I’d like to expand on some thoughts I had in another thread that provoked some interesting discussion: If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? I personally feel that the slippery slope runs in both directions: * The government expanding its power to block more protests is a slippery slop…

> If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful?

If it's not violent, it's peaceful.

Perhaps you're trying to redefine "peaceful" because you've come to the realisation that it's sometimes legitimate to shut down peaceful protests?

If someone parks their vehicle blocking the street as a protest or makes noise day and night, that's clearly nonviolent. If the state wants the protesters moved on, why can't they apply parking law or nuisance noise law?

Every protest has economic impacts, that doesn't mean it's not peaceful. I boycott Nestle in the privacy of my own home, which I hope will have a negative economic impact on them. Giving government the power to stop protests because they have economic impact would give the government the power to stop all protests.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#92

Post by tyleo »

verisimi wrote: post #80
tyleo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it is okay. I think protests and elections are great ways to register discontent with a state of affairs. But should the powers of protests go so far that small groups can shut down large parts of an economy? It is my understanding that the convoy is hundreds of trucks. This is already disproportionate power for few people but what if dozens could shut down an economy peacefully? It seems to me that a l…

So, you are fine with the government shutting down the economy for years, mandating of experimental health treatments to gain access to work, etc, but you are not ok with people protesting against those decisions even when their livelihoods are at stake? Do you realise too that Trudeau got ~30% of the vote, and that his party didn't even receive the most votes but win on account of the electoral system? IE voting eve…

Please reread what I said. I don’t think it’s okay. It’s the very first sentence in my reply to you.

I’m open to discussion but only if you are replying to what I'm saying.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#93

Post by retrac »

pfisch wrote: post #53
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vaccinated people there too. Don't fall for the "team sport" false dichotomy - there are many who are rational enough to get vaccinated but still largely side with the "less / less broad restrictions" side of the debate. (For instance, I am vaxxed, extremely pro-vax, and quite anti-restriction. Give everyone a chance to get vaxxed, even make it free - but then let them manage their risk from there. Even the…

Are you using your truck to block the economy of Canada right now? Have you participated in the protests with your actual body in any way? Do you even live in Canada or do you represent the interests of another country entirely?

Does their nationality, or who they represent, have any bearing on the logic of their argument? Don't forget where you are.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#94

Post by Chris2048 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #77
edot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could describe MLK’s protests as disruptive, causing gridlock, damaging to businesses, etc. BLM protestors danced on and destroyed statues as well. The whole point of protest is to be disruptive. Being anti-vax is super stupid but protesting government mandates (or systemic racism, or anything) should be allowed.

The whole point of an escalated protest is being willing to accept the consequences. If you park illegally, you expect to get a parking ticket, protest or no. You expect your vehicle to get towed. If you defy a court injunction, you expect to spend the night in jail. The people chaining themselves to trees expect to get arrested and spend time in jail. They also expect that their time in jail will help their cause. B…

What if they make up new laws?

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#95

Post by failedengineer »

EngCanMan wrote: post #85
failedengineer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the money was foreign. edit: and is not being funneled to the actual protestors. The people recently arrested tried to get some to use for legal fees. No bueno. yeah, yeah, no citation. Pretty hard to cite facebook posts that were removed because of subject matter.

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/2/14/1_5780989.... Says here that 51% came from Canadians. I think 51% constitutes a majority.

Some 36,000 Canadian donors — about 39 per cent — are listed in the partial leak, apparently taken from U.S.-based platform GiveSendGo and posted online by a website devoted to disseminating leaked data.

But that number is dwarfed by the number of American donors — some 51,000 or about 55 per cent.

-- The 39% of the donors were local, and donated 51% of the money. 61% of donors were foreign, including the largest donor.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#96

Post by iamricks »

AlexandrB wrote: post #81
verisimi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the corporate-owned media reports their cause in a negative light, doesn't mean public opinion has turned on them. In fact people were lining the streets as they made their way to Ottawa.

Most people I know think they are assholes and should go away. Also check out r/Ottawa on Reddit where the sentiment is solidly against them. I think you're right about one thing though. Opinion hasn't "turned" on them because it was never with them in the first place.

Subreddits are group think bubbles, i wouldn't consider that a good source of public opinion. That is like saying everyone wants Trump to be president, head over to r/thedonald.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#97

Post by failedengineer »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #78
failedengineer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the money was foreign. edit: and is not being funneled to the actual protestors. The people recently arrested tried to get some to use for legal fees. No bueno. yeah, yeah, no citation. Pretty hard to cite facebook posts that were removed because of subject matter.

This is false.

Check the article sent by the guy refuting me, that shows that 39% of donators were Canadian. 61% were foreign.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#98

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

michaelt wrote: post #91
tyleo wrote: post #3

I’d like to expand on some thoughts I had in another thread that provoked some interesting discussion: If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? I personally feel that the slippery slope runs in both directions: * The government expanding its power to block more protests is a slippery slop…

> If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? If it's not violent, it's peaceful. Perhaps you're trying to redefine "peaceful" because you've come to the realisation that it's sometimes legitimate to shut down peaceful protests? If someone parks their vehicle blocking the street as a protest…

Because protest of any sort breaks laws of some sort.

You can't even explain your argument on the street corner without breaking the laws against public nuisance, in the eyes of some.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#99

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #90
kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should governments be concerned about looking "weak"?

States should. A lot of their power rests on their legitimacy. They can collapse fast once that erodes. If they cannot even keep the centre of the capital moving, seemingly ever again, the value of the currency can plummet quite quickly as people decide to move wealth into less liquid assets (or simply cash from other countries). This seems far-fetched, but it did in the Weimar Republic too, until it became apparent…

I think they should be strong in upholding the law, but not in bossing their citizens around.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#100

Post by Chris2048 »

causi wrote: post #30

Not that the trucker protestors are right, but watching the Right and Left do a complete 180 and copy/paste each others' comments from the 2020 BLM protests is either the funniest or the saddest thing I've ever seen. It seems more and more that people only pretend to have principals so long as they can use them to advocate for their own side.

Unless "the right" are posting snippets from or inspired socialist manifestos, I doubt this is the case. Many of the more disruptive BLM activists/activities wanted to change society generally - this convoy is more targeted than that.
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