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Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

bbc.com

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Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#41

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

cryptica wrote: post #2

I've been saying that this type of thing would be happening increasingly often. The government wants to control people's money. In the future, you will need a license to sell company shares and other private property and only the top 0.01% elite will be able to get such a license... The media will gaslight the public into thinking this is normal and 'for the public good' or to protect investors from making bad decisi…

I'm reliably confused by people who suggest cryptocurrencies aren't just a different kind of fiat.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#42

Post by failedengineer »

young_unixer wrote: post #17

Is there some point at which people will start rejecting this arbitrary and excessive exercise of power? This sets a dangerous precedent for a country that until now we considered a liberal democracy with freedom and respect for individual rights. I wonder if we're all headed to a point where state control and erosion of freedom are widely accepted by the public in our western democracies.

The Ontario government told people in Ontario that they'd need papers and a reason to travel in January 2021.

The police refused to enforce the policy restricting municipal travel. The government walked it back shortly after. That was only at a municipal level. Inter-provincial travel was limited to people with valid reasons at the same time, and that was enforced. If you went from Ontario to Manitoba to check out the moose, you'd get sent home by the police at the border.

I guess "papers, please, and where are you going?" is where the line is currently.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#43

Post by NiloCK »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #15
tyleo wrote: post #3

I’d like to expand on some thoughts I had in another thread that provoked some interesting discussion: If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? I personally feel that the slippery slope runs in both directions: * The government expanding its power to block more protests is a slippery slop…

There is a very simple solution, the government lifts the restrictions and resigns. New elections are held and then the people decide if they want a new government that will punish protesters or not.

Context for non-Canadians: there was a federal election five months ago.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#44

Post by throwawayay02 »

tyleo wrote: post #35
throwawayay02 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very simple solution, the government lifts the restrictions and resigns. New elections are held and then the people decide if they want a new government that will punish protesters or not.

That is just one side of the slippery slope though. Assuming we took this recommendation as a rule, it seems that a convoy of truckers could organize, shut down an economy, and force an election any time they disagreed with something. This does not seem like a recipe for effective government.

No? It seems a recipe for a perfect government. Whenever X% of the population wants that much to throw down the government, that's probably a good time for a remodel.

Might not be as effective as a dictatorship or a oligarchy, sure, must a much better government to live under.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#45

Post by Hnus »

InsomniacL wrote: post #4

At what point does peaceful protest become none-peaceful through the consequences of the protesters actions? I.e Gluing yourself to the road could be considered peaceful however if you're doing it outside the A&E Ambulance entrance to a hospital is it still peaceful? That's an extreme example however in this case can it still be considered peaceful considering the economic,.. etc impact on peoples lives?

The whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable. Activists take that discomfort w/the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes…To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable…that’s the point.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#46

Post by edot »

verelo wrote: post #26
verisimi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it also includes people who donated to their cause. A peaceful, non-violent cause. Wow. North Korea, look out!

Except it’s really not that anymore. Constant noise disruptions, gridlocking the city…it’s causing harm and the protests have damaged property, businesses and even gone as far to dance on the war memorials. These are not our best people.

You could describe MLK’s protests as disruptive, causing gridlock, damaging to businesses, etc.

BLM protestors danced on and destroyed statues as well.

The whole point of protest is to be disruptive. Being anti-vax is super stupid but protesting government mandates (or systemic racism, or anything) should be allowed.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#47

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

pfisch wrote: post #5
cryptica wrote: post #2

I've been saying that this type of thing would be happening increasingly often. The government wants to control people's money. In the future, you will need a license to sell company shares and other private property and only the top 0.01% elite will be able to get such a license... The media will gaslight the public into thinking this is normal and 'for the public good' or to protect investors from making bad decisi…

Can we allow a small minority to shut down an economy indefinitely? That seems like a big problem. It is also hard to gauge just how small of a minority of Canadians this is though. It feels pretty small but it is hard to tell. If 80% of Canadians are vaxxed that means this is just 5-10% of people at most.

There are vaccinated people there too.

Don't fall for the "team sport" false dichotomy - there are many who are rational enough to get vaccinated but still largely side with the "less / less broad restrictions" side of the debate.

(For instance, I am vaxxed, extremely pro-vax, and quite anti-restriction. Give everyone a chance to get vaxxed, even make it free - but then let them manage their risk from there.

Even the most effective restrictions, from a case load perspective, such as here in Australia, just left us completely naive when Omicron arrived. Shortly thereafter we had world record cases per capita.)

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#48

Post by NikolaNovak »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #15
tyleo wrote: post #3

I’d like to expand on some thoughts I had in another thread that provoked some interesting discussion: If the protests are peaceful, the government should not shut them down. But at what point do the economic impacts of a protest cross a line such that they aren’t peaceful? I personally feel that the slippery slope runs in both directions: * The government expanding its power to block more protests is a slippery slop…

There is a very simple solution, the government lifts the restrictions and resigns. New elections are held and then the people decide if they want a new government that will punish protesters or not.

I feel that's either an external or minority opinion.

Not everybody outside of Canada may realize we just HAD an election. I personally don't think it was necessary or useful; in fact I think it was a colossal waste of money; but we did. And Canada tends to have relatively stable governments, our period between elections tends to be reasonably lengthy. Some people may not LIKE the result of elections, but there's nothing that indicates government does not have support of majority of Canadians. Polls tend to indicate most people are Canadians about covid. And elections tend (not always) to be about majority.

Second, many outsiders and even many inside Canada don't seem to realize vast vast majority of public health policy and restrictions is done on provincial level. That includes virtually all restrictions that impact majority of citizens. Further, many if not most are done by conservative governments - Alberta and Ontario as obvious examples, as well as conservative municipal governments like Toronto.

So I never understand on any level why anybody feels "federal government to resign" is an "obvious solution", let alone what, exactly, is it meant to accomplish when it comes to covid response.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#49

Post by throwawayay02 »

notpachet wrote: post #28
throwawayay02 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very simple solution, the government lifts the restrictions and resigns. New elections are held and then the people decide if they want a new government that will punish protesters or not.

Or, or! The protesters all return home, and promise to make this a hot-button item in the next fairly held democratic election.

That is quite some time away.

Re: Trudeau announces intention to freeze bank accounts of protestors

#50

Post by verisimi »

verelo wrote: post #26
verisimi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it also includes people who donated to their cause. A peaceful, non-violent cause. Wow. North Korea, look out!

Except it’s really not that anymore. Constant noise disruptions, gridlocking the city…it’s causing harm and the protests have damaged property, businesses and even gone as far to dance on the war memorials. These are not our best people.

We weren't allowed out for a year, remember?!

If you lose the ability to protest, what barrier remains for crooked politicians to draw up whatever legislation they like? What the Nazi's did was legal you know - they wrote the laws!

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