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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#291

Post by dqv »

dncornholio wrote: post #268
dqv wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because pedestrians have the intrinsic motivation of not wanting to die. Do they? Where I live, at night, no one ever wears reflectors, save a few cyclists. It seems like people don’t think about this at all. You’re walking around at night and someone driving a car doesn’t see you until it’s too late. I think there is some merit to asking the question about how pedestrians can be safer. I’m happy to practice what I…

Where are you walking around where a car might hit you though? Are there no sidewalks? Infrastructure needs to be build around pedestrians and cyclists. The youtube channel "Not Just Bikes" shows how it can be done.

Plenty of sidewalks. Not everyone wants to use them for some reason. There is also the issue of crossing the street where there aren’t crosswalks. I am aware of Not Just Bikes, but that doesn’t remove the need for pedestrians to have awareness of their visibility in car-centric areas.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#292

Post by giantg2 »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

"lenient criminal charges."

"face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911."

I don't think this is necessarily true. Criminal charges generally require some form of intent. That could be recklessness. Most driving doesn't constitute reckless driving (per case law and customary enforcement). The police do investigate. I would imagine that many of the fatalities include drivers following the law and exercising reasonable care (as based on society's expectations), as well as pedestrians and cyclists not following the law. I would love to see the data to show the breakdown one way or the other.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#293

Post by lamontcg »

ghaff wrote: post #138
jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I somewhat hesitate to anecdata this in the same general area. But... For a time, I might have been inclined to put it down to people just weren't driving and had "forgotten" how. But I think that's hard to argue for at this point. I've nearly got run off the road on a merge or had a horn blown at me followed by a pass on the shoulder because I was apparently only going at the speed limit multiple times in just the p…

The whole country has been aggressively pushing the virtues of selfishness for the past 30 years. The eventual outcome shouldn't really be a surprise.

I don't know what its going to take for half the country to finally wake up and realize it can't continue along this course and the philosophy of selfishness has failed.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#294

Post by lamontcg »

giantg2 wrote: post #292
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

"lenient criminal charges." "face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911." I don't think this is necessarily true. Criminal charges generally require some form of intent. That could be recklessness. Most driving doesn't constitute reckless driving (per case law and customary enforcement). The police do investigate. I would imagine that many of the fatalities include driver…

> I would imagine that many of the fatalities include drivers following the law and exercising reasonable care (as based on society's expectations)

We've got extremely low expectations.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#295

Post by efitz »

efitz wrote: post #21
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

A lot of the replies to my comment about sustainability of sidewalks have been either “bullshit, just look at the roads” or “we did this to ourselves”.

I am not making a judgement about the desirability of sidewalks. Indeed I said that more would be nice.

To the latter criticism, I say, yes, we did, but it doesn’t change where we are.

To the former, I say that government monopoly on infrastructure (which means that taxes pay maintenance) combined with sprawl have led us in the US to a place where literally in many places the money does not exist to maintain the infrastructure that was already built, much less build new infrastructure.

There are lots of essays on this; here’s one: https://fee.org/articles/the-unbearable-truth-about-infrastr...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#296

Post by giantg2 »

ghaff wrote: post #231
jeffbee wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new thing in Berkeley and Oakland, as of about 2 years ago, is people will pull up on my right at stop lights, as if they are going to turn right, but then they just run the light instead.

Near my house, I have one of those horrid stoplights where there are two lanes that immediate narrow down to one lane. I've lost track of the number of times recently when drivers will not take their turn merging and turn it into a game of chicken. I've taken to just assuming the car in the other lane is going to cut me off.

Situations like that make me miss my caprice. Slow speed, I have the right of way, my car isn't worth anything. Go ahead, hit me.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#297

Post by giantg2 »

lamontcg wrote: post #294
giantg2 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"lenient criminal charges." "face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911." I don't think this is necessarily true. Criminal charges generally require some form of intent. That could be recklessness. Most driving doesn't constitute reckless driving (per case law and customary enforcement). The police do investigate. I would imagine that many of the fatalities include driver…

> I would imagine that many of the fatalities include drivers following the law and exercising reasonable care (as based on society's expectations) We've got extremely low expectations.

Possibly. I feel split on this. I believe we need stronger testing. But I also wonder, if someone is following the law (which is vast), what would be the other steps for reasonable care?

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#298

Post by cmiles74 »

in_cahoots wrote: post #212
cmiles74 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in a home office in Western MA, the road outside my office is somewhat busy but is hardly the main road through town. Even so, the number of horns honking and brakes screeching has increased enough that I find myself wincing on calls when it happens. It could be that I'm simply more sensitive since the dramatic decrease of traffic during the pandemic, but my perception is that people are driving more…

Were you working from home prior to the pandemic to hear the noise during work hours?

Yeah, I've been working from home for a while. :-P I started about a year before the pandemic started.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#299

Post by jeffbee »

giantg2 wrote: post #296
ghaff wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near my house, I have one of those horrid stoplights where there are two lanes that immediate narrow down to one lane. I've lost track of the number of times recently when drivers will not take their turn merging and turn it into a game of chicken. I've taken to just assuming the car in the other lane is going to cut me off.

Situations like that make me miss my caprice. Slow speed, I have the right of way, my car isn't worth anything. Go ahead, hit me.

and everyone assumes you're a cop.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#300

Post by aeharding »

mcdonje wrote: post #24

US infrastructure is focused around cars. People don't walk much because cities are spread out for wide roads meant for cars, highways, and parking lots. That makes the distances less walkable. Bikes don't have safe dedicated lanes in many places. Many cities eschew trains because they would rather put another lane on a road because of traffic jams. However, because of induced demand, and the infrastructure forcing e…

> We need more trains, light rail, subways.

I'd argue we simply need more walkability, and to place shops and destinations closer to people. Public transit is great, but is not an effective way to fix our auto-centric land use.

In Strong Towns this is discussed. Transit should come to enhance and solve the transportation needs of already great, walkable places. Transit should not be created to try to induce great places.

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