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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#231

Post by ghaff »

jeffbee wrote: post #209
cochne wrote: post #158

Totally anecdotal, but I have noticed a huge uptick of drivers running red lights and stop signs in my area in NY. I have been wondering the reason.

The new thing in Berkeley and Oakland, as of about 2 years ago, is people will pull up on my right at stop lights, as if they are going to turn right, but then they just run the light instead.

Near my house, I have one of those horrid stoplights where there are two lanes that immediate narrow down to one lane. I've lost track of the number of times recently when drivers will not take their turn merging and turn it into a game of chicken. I've taken to just assuming the car in the other lane is going to cut me off.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#232

Post by Steltek »

bitexploder wrote: post #180
ruddct wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give just a few examples of the legal side of this: Here in NY, killing someone with a vehicle is a misdemeanor (unless you're drunk/high). People avoid this charge by claiming a medical incident while driving, and are often able to drive off from the scene of the crime. Hit-and-runs result in arrest less than 1% of the time. Speed cameras are restricted in number, location (only by schools) and hours of operation…

Please no speed cameras though. I would like to not escalate surveillance in society.

Without better/actual enforcement, the alternative is to simply ban cars. Of course, the true choice will be to do nothing and let innocent people die (hey-o covid!).

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#233

Post by kbos87 »

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I can second that the level of aggression on the roads in the Boston area seems to have jumped substantially over the last 18 months or so. I also very rarely see enforcement happening, my partner and I have long noted that the likelihood you’ll get pulled over in Boston even for overtly bad behavior is next to zero.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#234

Post by Beltalowda »

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

> It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, making walking or riding bikes to school seem so scary and unpleasant that few kids do it anymore, leading to more fat Americans who would never imagine walking. It is really depressing.

In my experience the mentality that drives this is "the road is for cars, you should not be here at all". You see this not just in the US where the infrastructure is extremely car-centric, but also in e.g. New Zealand.

With smaller roads people seem to instinctively understand that it needs to be shared, but with larger roads this understanding seems to go away.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#235

Post by mistersquid »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #159
dhbradshaw wrote: post #31

Here's kind of a weird hypothesis worth at least considering: Record pricing for used cars suggests that there's a car shortage. Ironically, less cars and less driving could lead to 1. Faster driving because of clearer roads, and 2. More walking. Combine those and it wouldn't be surprising to get more auto-pedestrian accidents. One test would be to compare changes to car accidents with changes to pedestrian accidents…

2. More people walking who rarely walked before. The point being, when possible, you should walk facing into traffic. I see people, often enough, walking in the road with traffic. Experienced walkers tend to know this.

> The point being, when possible, you should walk facing into traffic.

Please do not recommend this reckless and often illegal behavior.

If walking in the street, one should walk with traffic when possible.

Drivers and other forms of traffic merging into traffic do not expect pedestrian traffic coming from the wrong direction.

Salmoning causes other dangers, too, for example, by making it difficult to impossible for traffic to avoid collisions by stopping.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#236

Post by giantg2 »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #230
giantg2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"much of the congestion, which acted as the only reasonable limit to speed" Based on my recent experiences, I sort of agree - but more so as a negative control. My area does not have much bumper to bumper traffic, and never has. I have not noticed additional increase in speeding. The thing I have noticed is bad decision making or inattentive behavior. People pulling out when they shouldn't (possibly due to misjudged…

>The thing I have noticed is bad decision making or inattentive behavior. People pulling out when they shouldn't (possibly due to misjudged speed).... Possibly the result of the other drivers being able to drive faster, thus giving less space to pull out? > or looking at their phone and drifting from their lane. This one is much easier to connect to lower traffic levels. As the complexity of the environment decreases…

"Possibly the result of the other drivers being able to drive faster, thus giving less space to pull out?"

Not that I have seen. I have had numerous people pull out in front of me and my habits haven't changed. I'm even one to go 5 under when approaching two intersections that ate notorious for people pulling out at. Also, at the one intersection, people sit back instead of pulling up further, meaning the have to traverse an additional 15 feet, which they don't seem to amount for when pulling out.

"This one is much easier to connect to lower traffic levels. As the complexity of the environment decreases with the drop in traffic, drivers feel safer to do things like be on their phones."

True, i think this could account for some of the more urban areas. The traffic in this area hasn't changed and I've still noticed an uptick. Maybe carryover from habits developed on those urban roads, but maybe something else.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#237

Post by ejb999 »

sophacles wrote: post #165
ejb999 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The high rate of pedestrian deaths is a result of policy regarding road design, pedestrian infrastructure and lenient criminal charges. The driving culture is also to blame. Driving is a god given right. Cars equal freedom, and the bigger the better. Pedestrians are a nuisance and cyclists are the enemy. Yea, but almost none of those things have changed in the last two year - so does nothing to explain the spike in…

Attempts to make the police more accountable are the cause of pedestrian deaths? Do you have any data showing this causal link at all? Maybe broken down by place so we can see links like the pedestrian death increases match the places that did those things. Since you actually list several causal things, it can be broken down by places that limited enforcement for covid reasons vs those that defunded vs those that did…

Why not do your own homework and prove me wrong.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#238

Post by ghaff »

dylan604 wrote: post #223
hervature wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has driven quite extensively in SF, LA, NYC, and Boston, I don't know why Bostonians are adamant that their traffic and drivers are as bad as these other cities. My #1 frustration with Boston traffic is how "polite" drivers are. Multiple times, I've had the last car in a string of cars stop at a green light to let me turn left which is probably the most infuriating/stupid thing you can do. What I will…

>(Davis Square - where 7 streets meet) This doesn't sound very square to me. I'm totally amazed at how some cities do not have protected left turn signals. During high traffic times, this means you can litterally never have a gap. Which leads to the situation where once the light turns red, 3-4 cars wanting to turn left run the red light. LA was the worst of the places I've experienced this.

Pretty much all of the Cambridge and Somerville "squares" are really larger areas with nightmares of streets coming in and branching off at all sorts of random angles.

Left turn arrows tend to be eventually installed at the worst of the unprotected lefts. (Or left turns are just prohibited.) Locals just learn to expect a couple cars to do a left on red--and for another 2 or 3 to turn as soon as the light turns green.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#239

Post by throwaway0a5e »

hervature wrote: post #197
ghaff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat hesitate to anecdata this in the same general area. But... For a time, I might have been inclined to put it down to people just weren't driving and had "forgotten" how. But I think that's hard to argue for at this point. I've nearly got run off the road on a merge or had a horn blown at me followed by a pass on the shoulder because I was apparently only going at the speed limit multiple times in just the p…

As someone who has driven quite extensively in SF, LA, NYC, and Boston, I don't know why Bostonians are adamant that their traffic and drivers are as bad as these other cities. My #1 frustration with Boston traffic is how "polite" drivers are. Multiple times, I've had the last car in a string of cars stop at a green light to let me turn left which is probably the most infuriating/stupid thing you can do. What I will…

Most of the complaints come from people who live in the fairly well off ring of suburbs from ~I95-495 and are used to lackadaisical, un-urgent traffic that tends to characterize these places.

These people have little reason to got Lowell/Leominster/Worcester/Fall River (one ring outward) or Providence/Hartford/New Haven/Springfield (one ring further still) so Boston is just what they complain about.

If Lexington or Sudbury is your frame of reference then Boston is a f-ing zoo. If Lawrence is your frame of your reference Davis Square (or Kelly Square) is same shit different day.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#240

Post by _ea1k »

988747 wrote: post #123
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

>> Vehicles sold now are too fast for their intended purpose. You can buy a Toyota Camry with 300 HP and a 0-60 time of 5.1 seconds. Good acceleration makes driving safer, because taking over other cars takes less time (although 40-60 acceleration time matters more here). Also, "sports" cars, designed for high speeds usually have better suspension, braking, tires, all of which make them safer again. Cars are just too…

In general, I agree. The braking distances on newer cars are actually pretty incredible, even for some of the ones that enthusiasts decry has having insufficient brakes.

I do wish more emphasis were placed on teaching drivers the situations where hard acceleration is actively harmful, though. We are seeing some EV accidents already from people not realizing the differences between expected behavior and their behavior.

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