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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#991

As a F'ing "straight cis White male", here's my experience: WTF can I do? Work is sparse and obtaining one is never clear. Being stronger is not even an advantage now. Now I'm a programmer and now workers are in short supply but that was hell back in the days. In primary school a lot of female teachers would explicitly felicitate the "girls for being better than the boys" and give them privileges for being "better".…

A lot of these grips are on you, not women or society. How has onlyfans ruined dating? Who said lifting weights is dangerous? It's very healthy even in old age! There is a HUGE amount of things to do besides eating and playing video games. Perhaps you lack the motivation or imagination to do literally anything else. No school has children sit for 8 hours at a time and any gender at almost any age would have a hard ti…

> A lot of these grips are on you, not women or society.

Most of the things I've pointed out were either not about women or were from external actors or external factors.

> How has onlyfans ruined dating?

Most men wouldn't have intimate relationships with prostitutes (which is what it is)

> Who said lifting weights is dangerous? It's very healthy even in old age!

It was often cited as the reason not to have a gym at my school and other neighboring schools. They're afraid of lawsuits and complains from parents.

> There is a HUGE amount of things to do besides eating and playing video games. Perhaps you lack the motivation or imagination to do literally anything else.

Most children are not allowed to go outside alone. Playing with siblings (which less and less people have) can grow old very quickly, literally.

> No school has children sit for 8 hours at a time and any gender at almost any age would have a hard time having the patience to do that. Also implying that men can't go a whole 8 hours being nice?

Boys need more physical activity to concentrate. This will well known to anyone paying attention around kids. https://ideas.time.com/2013/10/28/what-schools-can-do-to-hel...

And yes, most of the time is spent sitting down, with less than 3 hours a week of physical activity per week.

Boys mature slowly compared to girls, including on the emotional side of things and unmet needs will fuel aggressive and disruptive behaviors more than girls, especially if they have too much unspent energy.

> I'm not sure what you think is fun, but yeah if it's actually legitimately dangerous for others you shouldn't be doing it unless in an environment where everyone consents to it.

Is going alone in the city / street too dangerous? Is running in the woods too dangerous? People have called CPS over this.

> In what situation - besides war - is violence good? + Insults, what function do those have and how will that help you live up this idea you have in your head of your role in society or get the partner you want?

Insults are part of life. Getting pushed around physically when very young is part of growing up (even if the authorities that be try to control it) and necessary to development. And you can't protect and be assertive without being dangerous because violence is always in the background of any kind of social interactions that is not with trusted people. There needs to be limits of course, but the "zero tolerance" we are seeing in schools (and which began to hold place when I was young) lead to zealous overreactions and causes more harm than good.

> Perhaps it's the other ways around and it's your perception that's wrong and in fact most women aren't attracted to those behaviors.

Bad boys are popular with women, they admit it themselves. No matter how much you try deconstruct it.

> Yes it's wrong that men aren't believed and don't report abuse. It's also the exact same for women and other genders.

Except it not the "exact same", it's worse.

> But, there's a person for everyone, no matter how different or however they view gender roles.

That's just magical thinking.

> I for one am happy that people do not have to make those trade offs and get stuck with 'traditional marriage' as defined by the viewpoints above.

I have nothing against people who chose to opt out of tradition. Freedom is important. But for the majority of people this is what they seek for their life and what is more favorable for raising children. That doesn't mean non-traditional families or single parents can't succeed, just that it's harder and harder to find people who will have different way to achieve their life goals.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#992

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

> tell Women painfully stupid stuff they want to hear If you are looking for a reason for your travails, here it is. If you started out with this level of contempt, it’s no wonder you’ve been unsuccessful. If you became embittered due to your challenges, then I’m sorry. That is a hard path. But if you want it to change, I think you have some work to do. And I wish you luck with it.

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised he said it on a throwaway. For one thing there are a lot of people from the rest of the world here. We all roll our eyes and sigh a little when we hear "America is the greatest nation on earth".

FYI I am not a native American. I am aware Americas foreign policy is evil and it goes to war with any nation for selfish purpose. But with all its flaws it promotes individual freedom and that like most of Asian country citizens I admire. I also understand some of the European countries are great in terms of quality of life, safety net e.t.c. But they are weak and can not protect themselves in case of war and everyt…

> America's strength lies in its founding principles based on freedom and that is something every nation looks up to.

That's mostly propaganda. The reality is Americans have very little freedom because the country is effectively governed by corporations.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Height is way more important than fitness to women.

As a 5'3 guy in pretty good shape with a nice apartment, six-figure job, and socially savvy, I agree. Almost all women taller than I am love coming to my parties and genuinely like me. But they are usually unable to see me as a romantic partner because of height. Forget dating apps or bars.

Sorry man, good luck. Your worth is not determined by a woman's superficial glance.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not completely different, the messianic morals are embedded in the ceremony by design: Sharing, caring, family, food, etc. These aren't incidental, they're the whole point. Sure the specific historical person, i.e. the messiah, blurs over time, as probably do the ceremonial activities, but surely they retain some of the original moral ideals.

> Sharing, caring, family, food, etc I really dislike religion claiming monopoly on morals. Even tribes of cavemen cared for each-other. We have evidence of people being cared for and living for years with crippling iniiries. They could not care for themselves let alone help the tribe. Even animals care for each-other and protect each-other, can't claim culture or religion there - its a basic feature of evolution. If…

> I really dislike religion claiming monopoly on morals.

Where's the monopoly? A discussion on the moral values of religious rituals doesn't preclude anything. I don't even belong to a church.

It seems you think (perhaps subconsciously) that religion has a monopoly on morals. Why else are you bringing that into the discussion and arguing against it?

> Even animals care for each-other and protect each-other, can't claim culture or religion there - its a basic feature of evolution.

Religious morals are an instance of mutual care emerging through social evolution in an animal - the human, specifically. And humans call it "culture", because humans like to invent words to describe specific instances of phenomena.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#996
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the teams weren't trying to exclude women. Not at all. They were representative of the company and the entire industry. There are very few women in tech. So then the question is why are very few women in tech? If you really dive into this, it's a chicken-and-egg problem: The fact that so few women are in tech makes the whole scene into sort of a frat house, which is often not a welcoming or kind environment to wo…

> The fact that so few women are in tech makes the whole scene into sort of a frat house, which is often not a welcoming or kind environment to women I have had several jobs in tech. None of those work environments resembled a frat house. Maybe a few startups resemble a frat house, but is it really indicative of the industry as a whole?

> I have had several jobs in tech. None of those work environments resembled a frat house. Maybe a few startups resemble a frat house, but is it really indicative of the industry as a whole?

Are the jobs you've worked at indicative of the industry as a whole?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#997
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My CS lectures barely have any women. 1/10 students in a class of 200-300 are women. In more difficult/less mainstream classes (operating systems, networking, sometimes PL theory), it's 1/20. The game development club I'm in has 2 woman in it (including me) out of the ~20 people that regularly show up. This is in 2019-2022. My school also hosts a hackathon for women and underrepresented gender minorities every year (…

> There's a real need for these groups. Whether men needs their own groups is a separate discussion that I have no real stance on. That doesn't imply there is a need for women-only groups. There can be a CS group for all genders and we just teach girls to stop being sexist and be part of that group (if they want to).

This isn't "girls being sexist." Like other folks have explained[0][1][2][3][4], women often feel uncomfortable in spaces where they're the minority and might even have negative experiences in situations like that. And thus, they are put off by joining those groups in general. Groups that encourage women to join help women feel less intimidated by the idea of joining those groups.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30277540 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30278113 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30276633 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30299883 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30276633

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in agreement with you that Care/Harm is probably not the moral axis most at play in the US. Liberty/Oppression is the primary axis (see gun control debates, state rights, mask mandates, neo-liberalism, etc, etc) with Fairness/Cheating (billionaires paying more tax, public healthcare for all vs excessive hospital bills, etc, etc) corresponding as the secondary political axis. Nearly all arguments portrayed in med…

I guess I don't see a particular primary moral axis. I've run workshops on responding to emotional attacks and I would imagine all 5 they listed would apply to most Americans in different ways, so I'm curious why he woukd say there's one and why he said it was care/harm.

A few days late in my reply but I found your response very interesting. I feel that I have fallen into the very glib reactionary narrative I was trying to avoid. Thanks.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are in 2022 and a nice, wealthy and rational guy won't commit to someone without a career and finances in order. This is more often false than true. I know many men who have or are marrying women who make 1/2 or less what they do. Nice, wealthy, and rational folks. They however need a woman. And there is a strong lack of women who are anywhere near where many men are in compensation and wealth. I am example of t…

> We got way more men than we do women in this world under age 35 I don't think this is true. I think population evens out at about age 18 then it's more women until death.

This doesn't take even 10s to Google. You could verify it yourself. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the...

It's age 40 where it evens out. Mainly due to suicide. (A lot of "accidental" deaths and occupational deaths are low-key suicidal behavior)

"number of men vs women by age usa"

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't see a particular primary moral axis. I've run workshops on responding to emotional attacks and I would imagine all 5 they listed would apply to most Americans in different ways, so I'm curious why he woukd say there's one and why he said it was care/harm.

A few days late in my reply but I found your response very interesting. I feel that I have fallen into the very glib reactionary narrative I was trying to avoid. Thanks.

It's ok, I'd say it happens to most of us. I wrote an essay (or recorded a podcast episode, I can't remember) the other day that I titled "Blinded by the fight," as I've seen how easily I can lock into a perspective based on the emotions I'm feeling in the moment. Eg, feeling fear of being too public on the internet and getting cancelled/stalked/manipulated can make me blind to the fact that many people on the internet may help me and support me in ways that I would love.

So, maybe a long way to say I'm grateful for what you said and glad we interacted here. Thank you :-)

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