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The Factorio Mindset

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Re: The Factorio Mindset

#251

Post by genewitch »

hathawsh wrote: post #124

I own a copy of Factorio, yet I never play it. Whenever I think about playing Factorio, I think what I really want to do is emulate biology, not industrial machinery. I want a game that lets me alter genomes slightly and try out several branches to see which ones are better for the world I'm trying to create. I want to fast forward through time so that evolution can run its course, then if I don't like the outcome, I…

There's a "game" called Critterding, which was passable at evolution and stuff, lots of knobs to manipulate the creatures and environment. Then someone made another version called Critterdrug which adds a "shared canvas" that all creatures can see and manipulate if they want/can.

I'm hoping that some day the source code is released, i've talked to the critterding person, but they don't seem amenable to it. Critterdrug is probably my favorite evolutionary algorithm example.

I'll never be able to do the game(s) justice, even if i link a video of the shared screen.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0c7nVitl7k

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#252

Post by serverholic »

liaukovv wrote: post #215
serverholic wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people legitimately think the purpose of life is productivity. I see quite a few on twitter and I can't help but stare and study them like some alien lifeform.

Purpose of life is reproduction Reproduction is easier in engineered environment

Are you saying you're one of those people? If so could you tell me why you're ok with trivializing your life like that? Are you religious?

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#253

Post by leafmeal »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #151
minihat wrote: post #8

My friend has 600+ hours played of Factorio. He just beat the game for the first time. I bought it, we played multiplayer. And I taught him the mantra "great is the enemy of good enough". Our run took 14 hours. I also know many people like this at work, and wish they could have the Factorio experience. If you refactor at the first sign of trouble, you remain blind to totally new to problems just around the corner.

I mean, some people just prefer to play the game more leisurely. It's not a speed run or a business deliverable. I have around 80 hours on my factory so far and it's pretty clear to me I could have "finished" by now with a lot more corner cutting but I'm enjoying the process of exploring each tech tree discovery in depth and scaling things out "right". This takes longer, but it's fun and I feel better about the end r…

This sounds like how I prefer to code: slow, exploring, learning, etc. Hopefully that fits someone's business requirements.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#254

Post by eezurr »

iliketrains wrote: post #224
eezurr wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, if you're focusing on realistic processes, how come that excludes realistic spacing/placement of structures (based on your websites background video/image)? Wouldn't the two go hand in hand for the feeling of the game you're trying to build?

I am not sure what do you mean by "realistic spacing/placement of structures", could you elaborate? Do you mean that in reality you would not build a farm next to a blast furnace? That's true, we did not implement any mechanics regarding building proximity to others, but that is certainly an interesting idea! When I mentioned our focus on reality, I meant that the mechanics and processes are mostly driven how things…

Sure, I'll try. The structures are all lined up and flush up against each other, and the buildings are bunched up. There's nothing wrong with that, I was just confused by "realistic processes". To me that also means (closer to) realistic functionality at the structures too, both in placement and functionality. Since you mentioned it, it seems like a key part of your game but to me that isn't communicated in the video sample.

Im working on a video game too so I understand the necessity of limitations and shortcuts. And your point could be entirely clear if I were to play the game. I'm just pointing out, IMO, there's a disjoint between what I see and what you say.

Edit: I'll add, I believe the communication and interpretation of game functions is extremely important. Im creating a city builder/simulation game, but the depth of the simulation is determined by what's communicated to the player, not what the code does. I could create an intelligent game AI and a sophisticated economy, but if it doesn't communicate that to the player in any way, then it's no different than RNG to the players eyes.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#255

Post by nja »

bduerst wrote: post #247
kroltan wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, the game is really made for the "10s of people scale". But thanks to how it works, it doesn't need 10s of coordinated people, you can certainly just join some existing server with a friend and have an equally good time.

This was my biggest annoyance with Eco. It really does take a community, which is disappointing because you can't scale it down to 1-4 players. Are there any mods for this?

They've recently revamped it so you can adjust various levels (skill increase, cap, multipliers, etc) and make it possible to play with fewer. I've actually run a couple of single-player games, completely vanilla. Fun in a different sort of way.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#256

Post by colechristensen »

_9omd wrote: post #241

My problem with games like Factorio (and more recently Oxygen no Included), is that after I get addicted and get up past 100 hours of gameplay I start to question what the hell I'm doing with my life. Up until that point it's great fun designing, building, and optimizing, but then a switch in my head flips. I start to become anxious about the fact that I was excited about getting better at skills in a virtual world.…

Optimizing and organizing are skills that you develop and can practice by gaming, there are plenty of transferable skills, and opportunities to learn from what sticks you up (from one side: i spend so much time optimizing i don’t get anything done, from the other: my stuff is such a mess it’s not getting much done)

You can like doing something and then realize you’re spending more time on it than you want and stop, both things are fine.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#257

Post by zouhair »

> I used to be of the opinion that the computer game Factorio was a colossal waste of talent, burning many billions of dollars of GDP every year.

I dunno if the author is joking or not, but I heard this argument over and over. Am I in the minority to think that it's totally insane that everything should revolve around raising the GDP?

I feel smart people working at Facebook or Google working hard at finding new ways to serve more ads to more people is the huge waste of talent.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#258

Post by dota_fanatic »

_9omd wrote: post #241

My problem with games like Factorio (and more recently Oxygen no Included), is that after I get addicted and get up past 100 hours of gameplay I start to question what the hell I'm doing with my life. Up until that point it's great fun designing, building, and optimizing, but then a switch in my head flips. I start to become anxious about the fact that I was excited about getting better at skills in a virtual world.…

Yeah, I feel you. However, remember that these are games. It's fun to play. It's unlikely in real-life that you will get the opportunity to control resources and strategy on the level that Factorio and such offer. Enjoy the opportunity to build. To imagine and see where your imagination takes you. It's good practice, mental exercise.

Much like with story-telling in the form of books and movies, playing (good) games is an opportunity to learn about yourself and reality, and then grow in response.

You are the player of games. Be mindful so the game doesn't play you. ;) It sounds like you're doing well to recognize "enough," when the trade-offs don't make sense anymore, though a bit late. Maybe next time you'll slow down before anxiety need kick in. Good luck, have fun!

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#259

Post by mhio »

benjaminbachman wrote: post #106
gmadsen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honest question, but is factorio not a similar itch to programming? I always feel with these type of games, that my time would be better spent working on a personal software project, where i get reasonably similar enjoyment, more satisfaction, and presumably more transferable skills.

In factorio, you have all the information and tools right in front of you. Everything is transparent. There are no black box failures. If there's a problem, you can and will find the source of it and be able to fix it. It satisfies the building+problem solving itch without the painful parts of programming, eg broken dependencies, slow build times, putting an = instead of a ==. So, yes, programming is of course more p…

I like your point about the limit. Real world system debugging can always go lower than my know how reaches. But in my experience the broken dependencies, slow build time, putting an inserter the wrong way are core mechanics of the late game.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#260

Post by ineedasername »

deltaonefour wrote: post #216
ineedasername wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the world is full of people that have never played Factorio. Some of them are programmers, and when they finally play it they get excited about it and want to tell people about it. Independent rediscovery. And I'll admit to bring irked sometimes when a recurring theme or repost rears its head on HN pg1 for the dozenth time, so I guess I understand your sentiment. But I console myself with the knowledge that wha…

Even CSS is turing complete. Have fun.

Oh! I think I'd heard that but completely forgot to go digging for the details. Thanks for the reminder!
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