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Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

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Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#51

Post by lambdaba »

nemonemo wrote: post #20
lambdaba wrote: post #6

Just give people magnesium, it's incredibly effective and deficiency is very common (big part of it is because of soil mineral depletion). In fact, a lot of hypertension is just magnesium deficiency.

Citation needed. Magnesium is definitely critical for living organisms, humans or or other animals or plants alike, but that shouldn't be confused with the question of whether Magnesium deficiency leads to hypertension.

I only have anecdata and directing you to a search engine. The simple query "magnesium hypertension" yields multiple results going in that direction. Also, magnesium is used to "relax" cells from "contraction" by calcium. Anyway, that's my layman understanding, but magnesium deficiency being at the forefront of an epidemic of "tension" diseases, seems quite evident when you look at the declining nutritional quality in diets, and the increases in stress factors (also depleting magnesium).

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#52

Post by burke »

hourislate wrote: post #35
burke wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure this comment is sarcasm, but regardless, it should be pretty obvious that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases, but that: * Lots of people aren't prepared to make the level of change required and so medication can be a better option; and * Medication will probably reduce risk a lot faster than lifestyle adjustment if things are already dire.

>that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases. Not really although it can certainly help. There is evidence that there is a profound change (infection of some sort) in the Kidney and at some point that causes a run away inflammatory response that leads to Hypertension, it is an autoimmune condition that is extremely difficult to manage or get rid of. They believe it may be responsi…

Interesting. I found this link: https://portlandpress.com/clinsci/article-abstract/135/17/21...

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#53

Post by lambdaba »

masterofpupp3ts wrote: post #15
lambdaba wrote: post #6

Just give people magnesium, it's incredibly effective and deficiency is very common (big part of it is because of soil mineral depletion). In fact, a lot of hypertension is just magnesium deficiency.

Do you have any further reading regarding this position?

I know of a doctor named Carolyn Dean, but there's @grimhood on Twitter who has a lot of compiled info about the role of magnesium and some recommendations (not only on magnesium). Start with https://twitter.com/search?q=from:grimhood%20magnesium.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#54

Post by lambdaba »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #31
neuroma wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nice idea but unfortunately doesn't translate to significant decreases in blood pressure for most people. 4g of IV magnesium sulphate barely affects the blood pressure. But I'd still recommend more broccoli for everyone.

This is whey we need to be talking more about nutritional genomics. Magnesium will help for people who have a need for magnesium based on their genetics. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22051430/ I do not care if a supplement works for "most people", I only care if it works for me.

Everybody has a need for magnesium and MOST people are deficient. Searches will give you a less dramatic percent, but those are measuring serum magnesium, while the important number is red blood cell magnesium.

I don't know if that's enough for everyone, but the other major factors are also evident: excess weight, lack of exercise, chronic high blood sugar, etc.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#55

Post by plausibledeny »

burke wrote: post #22
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly I don't think there's much money to be made out of those drugs. I'm on drugs for hypertension and they cost me less than 10 euros a month and that's if I go buy them at the pharmacy, if my doctor makes me a prescription they are free for me and I'm sure the government pay them a lot less than a private citizen. They also fall into the category of generic drugs, most of the time they are manufactured in my co…

This is where American drug pricing does a lot of work. I used to work for a Canadian Internet pharmacy selling prescription drugs to Americans, splitting the difference between wholesale and US retail prices. A 30-day supply of Lipitor - I think, the most-prescribed drug in America? - is something like $150–200. Our cost was something like a dollar and we'd sell it for something like ten.

The generic (Atorvastatin) is widely available for $15/month or less in the US.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#56

Post by lambdaba »

orgels_revenge wrote: post #43
lambdaba wrote: post #6

Just give people magnesium, it's incredibly effective and deficiency is very common (big part of it is because of soil mineral depletion). In fact, a lot of hypertension is just magnesium deficiency.

magnesium and potassium. I’ve experienced profound immediate lowering of blood pressure by taking 0.25-0.5 g of potassium bicarbonate every day or every few days. Try to get 4 g of potassium per day from diet or supplement. I’ve published some research on potassium sensing in renal physiology. Other benefits I’ve noticed are decreased heart palpitations and more mental energy. A note about magnesium: make sure you’re…

Yep, low potassium is perhaps why HBP is correlated with high sodium intake, which I understand displaces potassium. That's basically the typical western diet: high sugar, high sodium, low magnesium, low potassium.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#57

Post by upsidesinclude »

Arainach wrote: post #18
upsidesinclude wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

canned 'This message brought to you, in part, by Pfizer'

Just because something is done by a corporation does not in fact make it bad. Diet and exercise can help, but they take time (serious time for some people) and are expensive. As part of dealing with blood pressure, I switched to cooking my own meals (the salt and cholesterol levels in all restaraunt or ready-to-go meals, not just fast food, are horrifying) but that's a significant time investment and generally just a…

You have approached this without any humor and I'm baffled. But I digress.

In the article, you will find that Dr. Houston does recommend these lifestyle changes and reduction of medications to the extent possible. That extent is entirely. Not that you will achieve it, but it is something you could do, if you so chose.

Diet and excersize are not expensive and largely can reduce expenses. Walking a few miles a day is adequate. No equipment nor subscription is necessary.

Investigate "five ingredient dinner" or "five minute meals" if time is really pressing. Alternatively, engage with family during the preparation of a meal, get them to join and contribute. This can give kids a valuable life skill and help cut down on screen time and sedentary home life

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#58

Post by Turing_Machine »

ls15 wrote: post #49
Turing_Machine wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural compounds can be patented, though. If you discover that, say, eating cocktail onions cures cancer, you're allowed to patent that. Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be.

> Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be. In the sense that a person with cancer could be sued for eating unlicensed cocktail onions?

Technically, yes. In practice, very unlikely...but you'd almost certainly be sued for selling "ls15's Anti-Cancer Cocktail Onions".

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#59

Post by ls15 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #36
yupper32 wrote: post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

Completely agree. The fact that certain "natural" supplements mimic the pharmacodynamics of existing drugs is nothing new. Certain teas are diuretic but nobody is gonna prescribe tea instead of thiazides.

> The fact that certain "natural" supplements mimic the pharmacodynamics of existing drugs is nothing new.

This can also be viewed from the opposite end:

> The fact that certain "drugs" mimic the pharmacodynamics of existing natural substances is nothing new.

Actually I find it more appropriate to say that the man-made substance mimics nature.

People have been using natural remedies for thousands of years.

Oetzi the Iceman carried a piece of Fomes Fomentarius 5,000 years ago, a fungus that apparently was used as a diuretic in Indic folk medicine:

https://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/dec2001.html

I have no reason to believe that it did not work.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#60

Post by ls15 »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #58
ls15 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be. In the sense that a person with cancer could be sued for eating unlicensed cocktail onions?

Technically, yes. In practice, very unlikely...but you'd almost certainly be sued for selling "ls15's Anti-Cancer Cocktail Onions".

I'd be sued for that regardless of its efficacy.
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