Live data from Hacker News

Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#41
post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues.

Patent-free availability and lower cost can be reasons. (assuming they work)

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#42
post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

I feel that poor nutrition is the root cause for ailments that are treated for life with pharmaceuticals.

Why not address a potential root cause?

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#43
post #6

Just give people magnesium, it's incredibly effective and deficiency is very common (big part of it is because of soil mineral depletion). In fact, a lot of hypertension is just magnesium deficiency.

magnesium and potassium. I’ve experienced profound immediate lowering of blood pressure by taking 0.25-0.5 g of potassium bicarbonate every day or every few days. Try to get 4 g of potassium per day from diet or supplement. I’ve published some research on potassium sensing in renal physiology. Other benefits I’ve noticed are decreased heart palpitations and more mental energy. A note about magnesium: make sure you’re taking a chelated form. Most multivitamins use MgO, which is not very bioavailable. The difference in absorption is like eating a rock vs eating a gummy bear.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#44
post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

I feel that poor nutrition is the root cause for ailments that are treated for life with pharmaceuticals. Why not address a potential root cause?

> Why not address a potential root cause?

Because it's hard and people are unreliable when it comes to diet/lifestyle changes.

No reason not to address it, and I'd be surprised if most doctors don't bring up their desire for the patient to have a healthier lifestyle. But it's not realistic to have it replace pharmaceuticals as a general stance.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#45
post #41
post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues. Patent-free availability and lower cost can be reasons. (assuming they work)

Natural compounds can be patented, though.

If you discover that, say, eating cocktail onions cures cancer, you're allowed to patent that. Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#46
post #41
post #9

This shoots up so many red flags. "Dr. Houston also cautioned that the role of supplements in hypertension has not yet been tested in clinical outcomes trials in the manner that conventional drugs have been assessed . So while there is an apparent role for supplements in treating hypertension, their ability to improve cardiovascular outcomes remains to be proven." "Many natural compounds in food, as well as certain n…

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues. Patent-free availability and lower cost can be reasons. (assuming they work)

Have you ever been to a naturopathic pharmacy? You would question your assumption that it would be lower cost. People spend a lot of money on expensive supplements.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues Yes there is: 1) Treatment just treats the issue, unlike a healthy lifestyle which helps people avoid them in the first place. 2) Good health has various benefits beyond just fixing one particular health problem. But the role of medicine is to treat the diseased and maybe offer some guidance along the way. Being healthy is up to the ind…

Well there are two very different things suggested in the original post: 1. Supplements/"Natural compounds" 2. Diet/lifestyle changes We should absolutely not replace pharmaceuticals with supplements/"Natural compounds" without clinical data showing it works. And for diet/lifestyle changes, that's really hard to implement. People just aren't good at changing their lifestyles. So while overall we should be promoting m…

this line of thinking is why pharmaceutical companies have so much wealth and power: have a problem, take a pill. why? well these man-made pills are proven, with Science, to work; whether any other solution works or not is inconclusive, according to Science, and/or it's "harder" to implement any other, naturally-existing solution than it is to just simply take a pill! so take the pill.

I've been on ADD medication (time-released amphetamines) for more of my life than not and I'm pretty chemically dependent on it at this point, which I resent and wish I could change about myself, but as of right now it is simply not feasible to do so, because withdrawal is horrible, and I have a job to do, bills to pay, and a family on the way. every three months I check in with my psychiatrist to get three more months of prescriptions, and to have a quick chat about my mental health and how I'm doing. this past month I told her I was experiencing some anxiety at work around completing projects, which is something I've had issues with for years, but I told her that I noticed I was getting significantly better at dealing with it, to the point of surprising myself somewhat. she told me that was great... but that if I ever wanted to try any anxiety medications, keep in mind I could ask her, because, for example, drug $X and $Y would probably work well for me. I told her thanks but no thanks I feel like I'm doing great without that, and it made me realize, once again, how crazy the pill-pushing nature of modern medicine is, especially psychiatry. it would have been very easy for me to say "sure why not" and add another medication whose effects can't be 100% predicted to my daily intake, affecting my mind and body in ways that may or may not be desirable, possibly in the short term, possibly in the long term.

with previous psychiatrists, especially as a youth, I was put on a variety of different anti-depression medications, because nobody could understand my depression, but in hindsight it wasn't any sort of "clinical depression" (maybe not the right term?) where I was depressed inexplicably and randomly, my depression was pretty obviously caused by my environment at home and school. a gym coach would have been infinitely more useful than any of the medications I took for depression during this time. but no, the Scientifically-Reached Medical Conclusion was, take more pills, try different ones until you find one that works for you, this is the Only Possible Solution To Your Problems.

shit's fucked

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#48
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues. Patent-free availability and lower cost can be reasons. (assuming they work)

Have you ever been to a naturopathic pharmacy? You would question your assumption that it would be lower cost. People spend a lot of money on expensive supplements.

No, but I have harvested medical plants for free.

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no inherent reason to prefer more "natural" solutions to medical issues. Patent-free availability and lower cost can be reasons. (assuming they work)

Natural compounds can be patented, though. If you discover that, say, eating cocktail onions cures cancer, you're allowed to patent that. Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be.

> Cocktail onions as such wouldn't be patentable, but using them to cure cancer would be.

In the sense that a person with cancer could be sued for eating unlicensed cocktail onions?

Re: Hypertension: Is It Time to Replace Drugs with Nutrition? (2014)

#50
post #28
post #6

Just give people magnesium, it's incredibly effective and deficiency is very common (big part of it is because of soil mineral depletion). In fact, a lot of hypertension is just magnesium deficiency.

This is a nice idea but unfortunately doesn't translate to significant decreases in blood pressure for most people. 4g of IV magnesium sulphate barely affects the blood pressure. But I'd still recommend more broccoli for everyone.

Even if it were so (no acute effect, seems unlikely based on, err, anecdata), I've seen claims of it taking up to a year or more to fix a deficiency. It's nt just a nice idea, it actually works. And blood pressure medicine, often diuretics, only worsens magnesium deficiency and thus a magnesium deficiency treated symptomatically with such medicine becomes a chronic hypertensive condition.
Post reply on HN