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An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

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Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i.e. completely stop or just reduce? Because I was going to say it would make sense for the "threat model" to go beyond "traditional" stalking to domestic abuse etc.

Completely stop.

Not true, you will receive notifications as usual.

You can choose to supress indefenitly.

Source: have iCloud family with like 10 airtags.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#492
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said, "They have knife bans because they never let their citizens have guns, so there are knife attacks, so they ban knives" Texas has numerous bans on knives, despite letting their citizens have guns. Your causal logic is incorrect.

> Your causal logic is incorrect. It's not, I'm sorry you can't follow the simple logic that people pick up a knife because they don't have a readily available gun, so there are more knife attacks than anything else, so they ban knives more aggressively. > Texas has numerous bans on knives, Texas does have bans on specific types of knives, but not a blanket ban or anything w/ length. It's like saying because full aut…

> It's not, I'm sorry you can't follow the simple logic that people pick up a knife because they don't have a readily available gun, so there are more knife attacks than anything else, so they ban knives more aggressively.

I get that this statement sounds intuitive to you, but I would challenge you to substantiate a correlation between gun restrictions and increased violence with bladed weapons with some data before talking about causality. I personally think the majority of such violence is opportunistic, so I would be surprised if such a correlation were truly borne out by any data.

> Texas does have bans on specific types of knives, but not a blanket ban or anything w/ length.

When I was growing up in Houston, it was a felony to carry anything with a blade over 5.5" on your person. (I distinctly remember my scoutmaster warning us about locking or fixed blades >3.5", but that may have been a Houston or Harris County ordinance.) It looks like this was effectively repealed in 2017 per https://www.houston-criminalattorney.com/texas-switchblade-l...

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#493
post #318

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Like sibling post mentioned, you don't seem to be the target audience. I know a lot of people, friends and family, who constantly leave stuff behind, in restaurants, other people's places, on the train, in shops, you name it. 99% of the time, no one's gonna steal it, but trying to figure out where the hell you left something, if you do leave stuff behind often, becomes increasingly difficult. With something like an A…

I suppose if nobody but you ever handles your phone, that might not be an issue. I rarely drop my phones but in a household with kids, that's no guarantee. I put cases on every phone I have.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#494
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How expensive is your umbrella? Just curious.

$50-ish — but that's not the point. I value my belongings because I spend great deal of time researching and finding products that I love using day in day out (unlike most people who constantly curse at stuff they have). I also modify things I buy to fine tune it to my needs. So even a $50 umbrella is more like $1000 in terms of time I've spent on it and I have no intention of doing it again. This particular umbrella…

With how easy it is to lose an umbrella, and how difficult it is to retrieve most of the time, I prefer to think of umbrella as disposable items. Depending on where you live, your need for umbrellas might be different, but a significant amount of time, say ~20%, i need an umbrella and don't have one, so I end up buying some disposable version anyway.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#495
post #312

Notably they hint at one of the problems but don’t discuss fixing it at all: it’s bizarre that AirTags can’t be shared with a family account. It’s irritating that if I grab my wife’s copy of the car key I get alerts about being tracked, and, conversely, it’s frustrating that she can’t locate my copy of the key when that’s the one that’s closest.

Probably deliberate since unconsented spouse tracking is probably the most common type of tracking. Maybe an icon and periodic notifications, similar to how the location service works could be a way to allow.

Sibling comments have effectively pointed this out, but obviously it could be optimal per tag, and also given we already have Find My Friends access to each other it’s a completely meaningless objection.

Point is it should be at minimum opt-in possible because without it it clearly misses the obvious connection to a selling point of Apple (family sharing).

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#496
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, Brits used to also have right to own and bear arms, but they lost it in early 20th century. That’s what happens with freedom, if you don’t watch it.

I just don't get these comments at all. British people absolutely have freedom to own guns, just perhaps not in the way Americans do, but yes they are in no way forbidden nor is anyone's freedom in danger - I know lots of British people with guns, way more so than where I'm originally from(Poland). You apply for a permit, then a local officer comes over to your house to just make sure you have somewhere safe to store…

No. In Britain, to even own a gun, you must argue that you have a “good reason” to do so. If you don’t have a good reason, you won’t get the license. In US, guns ownership is considered a right, and you do not have to justify why you want to exercise this right.

Second, the ownership license does not entail right to actually carry the firearms. Brits used to have this right, but it’s now gone forever, especially as handgun ownership is effectively banned altogether anyway.

UK only has twice as many guns per capita as Poland, by the way, and I think a lot of it is actually a remnant of era when Brits had more freedom.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#497
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd really want to ask weird and possibly insensitive, but nonetheless (I believe) a legit question - shouldn't be it a society that needs to somehow change (I've no idea how, though), rather than technologies killed because it threats existing societal stuff? I hate to say this but it really feels that our assumptions of privacy are becoming outdated and there's no going back. Unlike e.g. facial recognition, AirTags…

> ...shouldn't be it a society that needs to somehow change (I've no idea how, though), rather than technologies killed because it threats existing societal stuff? We've allowed, collectively, anything that falls in the "tech" realm to deploy first, ask questions later, and more or less force society to conform. I think it's been absurd, we see more and more backlash against it, and rightly so. A company shouldn't be…

> I'm not OK with this, and I hope more and more people aren't OK with it either.

Cool, that's a societal change - awareness.

I can't argue against your ridesharing datamining examples. I can't say the data they've hoarded is actually valuable - just based on the fact almost all their ads are complete misses. I've yet to see any personal data hoarder company to be able to actually pull off anything sensible, not that some ML model realizing nonsense in lines of "meatbag bought a sofa, meatbag must love sofas, let me show him all the sofa recommendations" (lol). Anyway, that's not the point. I don't fancy this data collection and sure agree it's not a bad thing to stop it. Just as I'm fed up with small prints, shrinkwrap licenses and other things we pretend people read and understand that they don't.

When I wrote my comment I thought about somewhat different things. Tracker devices or face recognition is different because it can be done in what marketing calls a "privacy-respecting" way, on device. Yet, it's a fact if someone can point a camera on you, they can match you with their previous data, and if someone can plant a device on you (and devices get smaller and smaller every few years) they can know your location. And it's not about companies producing something, it's about the technologies itself, when the technology can be used for both good and bad things. Like a knife or a laser pointer.

It doesn't make sense to me to tell companies to not produce such technologies. It's impossible to make technologies be usable for good things and not usable for bad things. A knife is always a weapon (or it's not a knife and you can't use it to make yourself a sandwich), a key tracker can always be used to stalk (or it won't be ever useful to find stolen things). But some people are so desperate for "safety" they do want to nerf anything that can be even theoretically abused to absolute uselessness.

Things like this is what bothers me.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you can ban AirTags without also banning products like Tile

The key difference is in Apple's market penetration -- Tile tried to build something like Apple's Find My Network™ but it was largely useless because it only worked if random people near the tag were running the Tile app in the background.

I understand why people are concerned about AirTags and not Tile. What I'm saying is, it seems difficult to ban a given implementation of a technology based solely on the number of users. I don't think a framework even exists for us to say "Tile cannot allow their app to be installed on more than X number of smartphones".

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#499
post #478
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like sibling post mentioned, you don't seem to be the target audience. I know a lot of people, friends and family, who constantly leave stuff behind, in restaurants, other people's places, on the train, in shops, you name it. 99% of the time, no one's gonna steal it, but trying to figure out where the hell you left something, if you do leave stuff behind often, becomes increasingly difficult. With something like an A…

> you don't seem to be the target audience You are missing the point. They are not the target audience, but they are affected negatively by it regardless. It's for Apple users at the expense of everyone else. The criticism is not about the individual utility of airtags, it's about how it creates a privacy issue for everyone who is not an Apple user.

> You are missing the point.

And you should read past the first line.

> The criticism is not about the individual utility of airtags, it's about how it creates a privacy issue for everyone who is not an Apple user.

In the same manner, it’s not about utility of individual phone cases, it’s about all the plastic waste it creates for the whole planet.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#500

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

I agree completely. I love the idea of Air Tags, but we all saw this coming a mile away and Apple should never have been allowed to release these.

The fact that this post from Apple even EXISTS is direct acknowledgement of this being a horrible, dangerous mistake.

I know what they were trying to achieve, but it isn't worth the misuse by a long shot.

People will think it's not a problem until someone is tracked with one and killed.

The only thing I can think of (besides not selling them) is to open them up so they can be used with Android, and work with Google to add support for them to Android's OS.

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