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Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

nature.com

81–90 of 351 posts

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#81
post #21
post #15

Another point for anyone considering whether we should send a space-probe there... The current fastest man-man object is the Helios 2 space-probe, reaching something like 25 000 kilometres per hour. Proxima Centauri is 1.3020 parsecs away from Earth. So, just diving one by the other, we'd looking at something like 18 000 years as a rough order of magnitude for sending something from Earth to Proxima Centauri. You'd b…

I find it enjoyable to think about the technologies that might just be in the cards further into the future. If we ever figure out light-weight fusion drives, we could build light hugger space ships that accelerate to a decent fraction of the speed of light. At 1g acceleration it takes about one year to get to 0.9c, which would make the Proxima system accessible with a travel time of about 6 years. Or 8 years at 0.5g…

Bits of dust or a pebble hitting ship at 0.5c would make for a bad day.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#82
post #59
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it enjoyable to think about the technologies that might just be in the cards further into the future. If we ever figure out light-weight fusion drives, we could build light hugger space ships that accelerate to a decent fraction of the speed of light. At 1g acceleration it takes about one year to get to 0.9c, which would make the Proxima system accessible with a travel time of about 6 years. Or 8 years at 0.5g…

> If we ever figure out light-weight fusion drives, we could build light hugger space ships that accelerate to a decent fraction of the speed of light. At 1g acceleration it takes about one year to get to 0.9c, which would make the Proxima system accessible with a travel time of about 6 years. Or 8 years at 0.5g. Or 9 years if we 'only' get to 0.5c. No, we couldn't. The energy density of fusion isn't anywhere near cl…

Another atomic rockets enjoyer. I've killed so much time on that site. I don't agree with every one of Winchell's conclusions. But they are small things. And I don't know of a more comprehensive and grounded take on future spaceflight technologies.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#83
post #68

Other commenters (rightly) pointed out this is a stretch to the term "habitable". What's becoming clear though is the only thing stopping us from lots of Earth-mass planets is the abilities of our detectors to detect ever-smaller gravitational wobbles and ever-smaller transits. Bear in mind we only tend to find planets around stars where we're on their ecliptic planes. So planets seem to be really common. If they wer…

There is a major logical flaw in your argument. Space travel is only considered to be impractical for humans , or similarly large organic entities within their limited lifespan. The time constraint and the mass constraint may not be particularly relevant to intelligence that no longer has organic form. An artificial lifeform may not have a defined life span and thus taking 100,000 years to travel the stars may be acc…

Time is still a problem because how do you keep such a spacecraft in good repair?. If anything breaks it needs a fair amount of intelligence to fix. same for parts that wear out.

Rocks though space, but that doesn't help learn much. Rocks bring up the other issue is we don't know how many high velocity things might be between starts, numbers below the noise limits of our current sensors is enough to destroy anything we could send out.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#84
post #15

Another point for anyone considering whether we should send a space-probe there... The current fastest man-man object is the Helios 2 space-probe, reaching something like 25 000 kilometres per hour. Proxima Centauri is 1.3020 parsecs away from Earth. So, just diving one by the other, we'd looking at something like 18 000 years as a rough order of magnitude for sending something from Earth to Proxima Centauri. You'd b…

with how small you can make a probe today there isn’t any barrier to making something 100x faster or more. throw up a small camera and transmitter with a huge ion thruster thank on top of a saturn v sized rocket of your choice and you will get going very fast

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#85
post #71
post #68

Other commenters (rightly) pointed out this is a stretch to the term "habitable". What's becoming clear though is the only thing stopping us from lots of Earth-mass planets is the abilities of our detectors to detect ever-smaller gravitational wobbles and ever-smaller transits. Bear in mind we only tend to find planets around stars where we're on their ecliptic planes. So planets seem to be really common. If they wer…

I will start off by saying I have very little knowledge of physics or astronomy, but reading comments like these feels like I'm watching a 13th century British sailor confidently state what's on the other side of the Atlantic ocean... Do we really know enough to be able to say if a planet is habitable? Or could there be other forms of life that we don't know of yet... We have only recently put a man on the moon, and…

People bring this up a lot. It's fair to ask. I do often find it comes from a place of wishful thinking. I mean I'd like to have FTL at my disposal true. But what we're dealing with now seem to be either hard physical limits or such close approximations to be effectively the same. The key two are:

1. The speed of light is a hard limit; and

2. Thermodynamics (particularly the Second Law) applies. Specifically, you can't get energy from nothing.

From this you can draw a few conclusions:

1. The likely sources of future energy are solar (most likely IMHO) and nuclear fusion. I hope fusion is viable. I'm not yet convinced it is. More exotic far-future options include antimatter and black holes. Antimatter is something you'd make. Think of it like a battery. So you still need the energy to make it. Black holes as propulsion are the same way. Generating power around a large black hole is theoretically possible but has a bunch of issues;

2. Reaction mass is a huge problem for traveling large distances, so much so that using photos to impart momentum seems the most practical. Fusion could be viable here. Antimatter and black hole propulsion are theoretically possible;

3. Because of energy demands, capturing the Sun's energy makes the most sense and doesn't require any "magical" or exotic science or technology;

4. Because of thermodynamics, eventually heat will radiate into space. It's really the only way of dissipating heat, ultimately.

5. Like I said, the IR signature is purely a function of temperature; and

6. A star with a Dyson Swarm will have a very strange (to us) spectrum. Very little visible light. High amounts of IR. There is really no hiding such a megastructure.

So this is essentially a natural conclusion based on physical laws we have no evidence for that they're false or meaningfully incomplete. Thing is, if the speed of light isn't a hard limit that actually makes it more likely we'd find spacefaring life not less because the reach of such a civilization would be so much farther.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generation ships will take some time to get ready. We can railgun tardigrades and aphanizomenon flos-aquae there this year and let evolution do the rest. By the time we (or, more likely, the descendants of cockroaches) get there, it will be teeming with DNA-based life.

We should perhaps be extra sure that there isn't life there already, before starting to attack a distant planet with terraforming weaponry.

Why bother, even if there is no life there now that doesn't mean their won't be when we finally arrive. Or contrary if there is life there now that doesn't mean it will survive until we get there.

The odds that there is life on our generational ship when we arrive are not that great either.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#87
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the limit with humans on-board is like .3c due to the red/blue shifting of the background radiation of the universe. At about .3c, it turns into microwaves/radar/x-rays and such, becoming quite bad for humans. There’s so much background radiation, there may be no way to adequately shield from it and/or travel may be limited only in the direction of less background radiation. Maybe someone has a link to more inf…

That's a good point. I have no idea actually where the practical limits would be, especially considering options that arise if the ship has access to a lot of electrical power to generate a protective magnetic field. But even at 0.3c, the trip to Proxima could still be worthwhile for an unmodified human.

You still have the deceleration issue.

You need to use the same amount of energy and time to decelerate, as you did to accelerate.

So you'd only be able to sustain constant acceleration for half the distance. Then deceleration for the second half of the journey.

That would make the travel time much, much longer than your calculations, since you'd be traveling at relatively slow speed for both the first & last 20-25% of the distance.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#88
post #63
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If various forms of rapidly ejecting matter out of a nozzle really are the only physically viable option for spaceflight, it would be an extremely disappointing universe. Indeed. If that's the case, the universe is an infinitely big and infinitely boring place. OTOH, our future uploaded selves may be able to slow down their clock rates and make the trip so much shorter. And you don't need to leave your dear ones on…

Frankly, I believe that any form of mind upload or consciousness transfer is a much harder problem than both rejuvenation and interstellar spaceflight. Looking at current aging research, there's a good possibility we'll see rejuvenation in the next decade or two and it'll profoundly change our society. In 20 years, everyone will be looking 25 years old and pointing at frail people with wrinkly faces and laughing, sam…

> pointing at frail people with wrinkly faces and laughing, same way we do today with antivaxxers.

Except those people are more likely to be too poor to afford it instead of unwilling to take it.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#89
post #56

There seems to be some confusion about the meaning of "within the habitable zone". From the paper (Introduction and Conclusions, respectively) [1]: The habitability conditions of Proxima b, which orbits within the HZ of the star, have been extensively studied (e.g. Barnes et al. 2017; Ribas et al. 2016; Turbet et al. 2016; Meadows & Barnes 2018). On the other hand, the candidate Proxima d orbits much closer to the st…

There's also the consideration of the host star to take into account.

I dislike the term "Earth-like" in these publications because it conjures images of a strange alien world able to support (human) life. Even assuming there were life capable of withstanding the constant flares from the host star, I suspect it would have to look very different in color and likely composition to the plant life here due to needing to capture a different part of the spectrum.

Re: Earth-like planet spotted orbiting Sun’s closest star

#90
post #63
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If various forms of rapidly ejecting matter out of a nozzle really are the only physically viable option for spaceflight, it would be an extremely disappointing universe. Indeed. If that's the case, the universe is an infinitely big and infinitely boring place. OTOH, our future uploaded selves may be able to slow down their clock rates and make the trip so much shorter. And you don't need to leave your dear ones on…

Frankly, I believe that any form of mind upload or consciousness transfer is a much harder problem than both rejuvenation and interstellar spaceflight. Looking at current aging research, there's a good possibility we'll see rejuvenation in the next decade or two and it'll profoundly change our society. In 20 years, everyone will be looking 25 years old and pointing at frail people with wrinkly faces and laughing, sam…

That's insane optimism to me. We don't even know how to get a nail to re-attach to a nail bed. We can't put some crystals on a tooth. We can't create a single hair follicle. We have zero non-surgical ways to repair arteries. Etc, etc, etc. We have made zero progress in anti-aging other than controlling blood pressure and identifying harmful chemicals in an environment.

We ARE good at extreme, surgical and or heavy medicating intervention. Doesn't go hand-in-hand with life extension at all.

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