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An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

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Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#431

Post by rekoil »

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

> Android users are still vulnerable

This isn't really under Apples control though. But I guess they could go out of their way to provide an AOSP pull request, that would be big of them.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#432

Post by dodgerdan »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #355
reaperducer wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area? A replacement key for my wife's car costs $1,200. And it's not even a newer, or expensive car. It's been a long time since you could get many car keys done at a hardware store. And it's not even the electronics anymore. One locksmith I called said it's about the fancy engraving. They can't afford the tools to do that kind of work, and they just r…

Curious which manufacturer... Porsche or Audi?

VW are also in that price range. I think I paid $850…

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#433

Post by dreamcompiler »

simondotau wrote: post #338
oxplot wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$50-ish — but that's not the point. I value my belongings because I spend great deal of time researching and finding products that I love using day in day out (unlike most people who constantly curse at stuff they have). I also modify things I buy to fine tune it to my needs. So even a $50 umbrella is more like $1000 in terms of time I've spent on it and I have no intention of doing it again. This particular umbrella…

The notion of an umbrella lasting 20 years boggles my mind. I've never had one last more than 2–3 years and I don't use them much. I've looked for premium umbrellas before but every time I find one that isn't ridiculously priced, there's always a contingent of reviewers who insist that it fell apart in heavy wind or frequent use. Normally I buy $10 umbrellas from Australia's big hardware store chain. They aren't grea…

It's certainly possible to build and even buy a very robust umbrella. I suspect the reason most people don't is that they know they're going to be lost or stolen.*

It's why Amsterdam bicyclists don't ride $5000 bikes.

*Especially in Tokyo. If you drop a wallet full of cash on the street in Tokyo, someone will chase you down to return it. But if you turn your back on your umbrella in Tokyo, kiss it goodbye. Then you have to steal another one.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#434

Post by alias_neo »

oxplot wrote: post #331
matteotom wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your car has a smart key, it can be over $100 to replace and another $100 to have a dealer or locksmith re-program it. Edit, more things that are expensive: - if you live in an apartment with nfc entry, they might charge an arm and a leg to replace it, even if the actual device is only a few dollars - IDK how much it costs to replace an apartment mailbox key, but I've been warned that if you lose one they need to…

> if you live in an apartment with nfc entry, they might charge an arm and a leg to replace it, even if the actual device is only a few dollars That's just theft — plain and simple. The only half valid argument I've heard is to discourage carelessness leading to loss of the key and weakening of the building security. But that's moot in places where the garage gate is broken and left open half the year (my current pla…

Unfortunately, it's accurate. Theft is what I'd call the racket that is management companies in London.

In my case, with a London apartment, it's an "Administrative Fee", £150 to replace your lost fob.

Then for my costs as an individual, it was not only that fee, but also new locks for external door(s) and mail box, another administrative fee for the communal meter cabinet/room key, new Kensington lock and a car key/fob when my wife's keys were "lost in a known location yet never again found".

That is to say, "losing" those keys is a £300-500 affair.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#435

Post by rekoil »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #392
concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

> Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than Apple made these trackers, it wouldn't do this with anyone's phones. The fact that these work out of the box with iPhones is a bonus, not an entitlement that any phone of any brand should have full support for them without installing any apps and without the use…

> I feel like this is ignoring the fact that if any company other than Apple made these trackers, it wouldn't do this with anyone's phones.

Right, and Apple have provided everything that AOSP would need to implement this, someone even made their own version of the entire Find My client long ago (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack), so technically AOSP could even integrate using Find My, although I imagine Apples lawyers would have a field day with this if they did.

Identifying the AirTags has also been implemented as a background service by the same organisation as above (https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard).

> I guess they could make the packaging more tamper resistant somehow, but again this is kind of shifting the goals a bit. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that every device will be physically resistant to modifications that would enhance illegal use. An iPhone with the speaker removed and screen cable cut to look dead would make a pretty good tracker too.

This. Plus, the noise AirTags make isn't the only way of finding them, you get the notifications, and soon (when the changes mentioned in the article are implemented) it'll be easier to find them using precision finding.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#436

Post by thinkingemote »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #433
simondotau wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion of an umbrella lasting 20 years boggles my mind. I've never had one last more than 2–3 years and I don't use them much. I've looked for premium umbrellas before but every time I find one that isn't ridiculously priced, there's always a contingent of reviewers who insist that it fell apart in heavy wind or frequent use. Normally I buy $10 umbrellas from Australia's big hardware store chain. They aren't grea…

It's certainly possible to build and even buy a very robust umbrella. I suspect the reason most people don't is that they know they're going to be lost or stolen.* It's why Amsterdam bicyclists don't ride $5000 bikes. *Especially in Tokyo. If you drop a wallet full of cash on the street in Tokyo, someone will chase you down to return it. But if you turn your back on your umbrella in Tokyo, kiss it goodbye. Then you h…

I have a confession. A first time visitor from a small European town to a Japanese city last millennium, it was raining and a department store had buckets with mostly white or transparent umbrellas by the door.

How civilized, I thought, that a company would provide free umbrellas to shoppers when it rains, and so I took one.

Turns out that's where you out your umbrella when entering the store...

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#437

Post by girvo »

simondotau wrote: post #388
oxplot wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be willing to pay $120 AUD (or $80 USD) for an umbrella that was seriously good quality https://au.davekny.com/ has good stuff although I haven't had one long enough (only 5 years) to attest its durability. They also have some promising guarantee terms: https://au.davekny.com/pages/lifetime-guarantee

Approximately twice what I was hoping to pay, but damn those are some wild guarantees.

Yeah same. Seems worth it though. I’ve spent more than $200 over the last 5-10 years on umbrellas easily.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#438

Post by ece »

Some things should just be mandated to be cross-platform, and this seems like a good start. Phones scan for wifi and other BT devices, and this is just another BT device. There's an option for turning on a notification for open networks and authenticating to them, just give me a similar option for BT/UWB/whatever lost trackers.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#439

Post by apexalpha »

kennywinker wrote: post #426
apexalpha wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that these work out of the box with iPhones is a bonus, not an entitlement that any phone of any brand should have full support for them without installing any apps and without the user even knowing that the product exists. Isn't this the whole clue, rather than just a bonus? When someone slips an AirTag on to you every single iPhone in the world forms a sort of ad-hoc spying network against you. Without you…

You can opt out of participating in this spy network, and probably should Settings -> (tap your apple id card at the top) -> Find My -> Find my iPhone -> turn off “Find My Network”

That doesn't change a thing. 99,99% of iPhone users won't do this.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#440

Post by coldtea »

oxplot wrote: post #330
anormaluser wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How expensive is your umbrella? Just curious.

$50-ish — but that's not the point. I value my belongings because I spend great deal of time researching and finding products that I love using day in day out (unlike most people who constantly curse at stuff they have). I also modify things I buy to fine tune it to my needs. So even a $50 umbrella is more like $1000 in terms of time I've spent on it and I have no intention of doing it again. This particular umbrella…

Well, the $50 umbrella to last decades and the "tag things with sentimental/shopping research value" thing is not exactly the big motivator for AirTags, or a representative anecdotal case.
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