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An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

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Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#331

Post by oxplot »

matteotom wrote: post #319
mtlynch wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. What do you mean by "a few hundred dollars of keys?" Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area? Were these private keys to a crypto wallet?

If your car has a smart key, it can be over $100 to replace and another $100 to have a dealer or locksmith re-program it. Edit, more things that are expensive: - if you live in an apartment with nfc entry, they might charge an arm and a leg to replace it, even if the actual device is only a few dollars - IDK how much it costs to replace an apartment mailbox key, but I've been warned that if you lose one they need to…

> if you live in an apartment with nfc entry, they might charge an arm and a leg to replace it, even if the actual device is only a few dollars

That's just theft — plain and simple. The only half valid argument I've heard is to discourage carelessness leading to loss of the key and weakening of the building security. But that's moot in places where the garage gate is broken and left open half the year (my current place) or where people can casually wait for someone to walk in and tail gate them without anyone complaining.

By the way, I purchased a proxmark a long time ago to play with and to date, it has paid for itself many times over, by allowing me to carry my building keys the way I like to (cards vs bulky key fobs) by duplicating them where otherwise it would cost $100 or impossible.

Can't wait for keys on Apple Wallet to become mainstream.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#332

Post by sangnoir »

tacLog wrote: post #229
rainsford wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major part of the announcement you're skipping over is the clear statement that individual AirTags are linked to specific AppleIDs and Apple will cooperate with law enforcement to help identify the owners of AirTags used for criminal activity. If you're a wannabe stalker, the fact that Apple has made it clear they're just itching to point the cops in your direction if you misuse their technology seems like…

Do you have to reveal who you are to Apple to use an airtag though? Or with decent operational security can you purchase and activate airtags in an untraceable way? If you can that undermines your point, however if you can't then your making a very good point.

> Do you have to reveal who you are to Apple to use an airtag though?

People are subjecting themselves to voluntary surveillance and it's amazing to watch, Apple's promise to cooperate with "Law Enforcement" in most of the world was chilling. J Edgar Hoover would have creamed his pants - "Did you say MLK Jr. has several airtags? I want daily updates on where he's going."

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#333

Post by Wowfunhappy »

quirino wrote: post #254
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #240

> Every AirTag has a unique serial number, and paired AirTags are associated with an Apple ID. Apple can provide the paired account details in response to a subpoena or valid request from law enforcement. We have successfully partnered with them on cases where information we provided has been used to trace an AirTag back to the perpetrator, who was then apprehended and charged. This makes me wonder, could Apple go fu…

I wonder how this would work. Even if you do find the Apple ID the AirTag is associated with, how do you find the person associated with the Apple ID? You can use any name you wish there as far as I know.

If you have an iPhone, it would be hard to fake your phone number.

It could be a burner phone, but if you're going to put in that much effort you might as well get a GPS tracker. And, chances are the stalker is probably someone you know.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#334

Post by reaperducer »

mtlynch wrote: post #315
incongruity wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That leaves "finding your keys within your home" as the only truly "officially supported" use case. That is hardly true. Case in point - my wife put down her keys at a store and managed to leave without noticing (this was early after AirTags hit the market). I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. Later that day, we noticed. She called a few stores all said th…

> I was driving and we left without recognizing that a few hundred dollars of keys had been lost. What do you mean by "a few hundred dollars of keys?" Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area? Were these private keys to a crypto wallet?

Do hardware stores charge more than a few dollars per key in your area?

A replacement key for my wife's car costs $1,200. And it's not even a newer, or expensive car.

It's been a long time since you could get many car keys done at a hardware store.

And it's not even the electronics anymore. One locksmith I called said it's about the fancy engraving. They can't afford the tools to do that kind of work, and they just refer people to the dealer and to suck up the $1,200.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if that might have been covered under insurance.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#335

Post by samatman »

thomasguide wrote: post #302
samatman wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say, as an adult in the habit of carrying a lockback folding knife whenever I leave the house, a practice I ultimately owe to Lord Baden-Powell, I found it.. discomfiting that this benign practice is illegal in London. Lovely city in general, one of my very favourites, but there's something grim about that. "Be Prepared" was considered a perfectly valid reason at one time. Still is in hmm. Many places.

Not disagreeing with you per se, but what is benign in some contexts might not be so benign in others. Knife crime is a big problem in London - the tight regulation is in response to these circumstances. For instance, of the 126 homicides committed in London in 2020, 71 were committed with knives.[1] [1] https://www.onlondon.co.uk/the-number-of-homicides-in-london...

It seems plausible to me that the crime we want to deter (shoving a sharpened piece of steel into someone) isn't easily or effectively prevented by adding carrying such a piece of steel to the list of crimes.

They're in every kitchen, how are we to prevent them from being carried out of the nearest one? Ask yourself!

The list of good reasons to carry a pocketknife which are aren't shanking someone is unenumerable and lengthy. It's an absurdity and I despair when I have to see Brits pretend to the logic of it out of some misplaced solidarity. Kudos for the NHS but the knife loisense fills me with pity for what a once mighty nation has become.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#336

Post by reaperducer »

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

That leaves "finding your keys within your home" as the only truly "officially supported" use case.

People lose stuff all the time. That's why most public places have Lost And Founds.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#337

Post by arvindamirtaa »

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

I have around 10 airtags installed in various places. The amount of peace and anxiety relief it brings me is priceless.

And none of these problems are airtag specific. You can buy fairly accurate GPS trackers for about $30 that don't even have the android scan feature.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#338

Post by simondotau »

oxplot wrote: post #330
anormaluser wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How expensive is your umbrella? Just curious.

$50-ish — but that's not the point. I value my belongings because I spend great deal of time researching and finding products that I love using day in day out (unlike most people who constantly curse at stuff they have). I also modify things I buy to fine tune it to my needs. So even a $50 umbrella is more like $1000 in terms of time I've spent on it and I have no intention of doing it again. This particular umbrella…

The notion of an umbrella lasting 20 years boggles my mind. I've never had one last more than 2–3 years and I don't use them much. I've looked for premium umbrellas before but every time I find one that isn't ridiculously priced, there's always a contingent of reviewers who insist that it fell apart in heavy wind or frequent use.

Normally I buy $10 umbrellas from Australia's big hardware store chain. They aren't great but they're easily robust enough to last for a year or two. (Cheap umbrellas from anywhere else tend to break if you look at them funny, and they rust if you get them wet.)

I'd be willing to pay $120 AUD (or $80 USD) for an umbrella that was seriously good quality, recognising that the economics imply that it would need to last for at least a decade to be cost competitive.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#339

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

arvindamirtaa wrote: post #337
concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

I have around 10 airtags installed in various places. The amount of peace and anxiety relief it brings me is priceless. And none of these problems are airtag specific. You can buy fairly accurate GPS trackers for about $30 that don't even have the android scan feature.

They are far more noticeable and less suited for covert tracking than AirTags: they need far more power, reducing the time of autonomous work, they are significantly bigger, they need to be in the coverage area of mobile network.

Also, AirTags look far more innocent, giving a plausible deniability excuse to a potential stalker. Oh, that's where I lost that key, it's on the floor of your car! With specialised tracker that excuse won't work.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#340

Post by thomasguide »

samatman wrote: post #335
thomasguide wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing with you per se, but what is benign in some contexts might not be so benign in others. Knife crime is a big problem in London - the tight regulation is in response to these circumstances. For instance, of the 126 homicides committed in London in 2020, 71 were committed with knives.[1] [1] https://www.onlondon.co.uk/the-number-of-homicides-in-london...

It seems plausible to me that the crime we want to deter (shoving a sharpened piece of steel into someone) isn't easily or effectively prevented by adding carrying such a piece of steel to the list of crimes. They're in every kitchen, how are we to prevent them from being carried out of the nearest one? Ask yourself! The list of good reasons to carry a pocketknife which are aren't shanking someone is unenumerable and…

The target of these laws is not kitchen knives. Pocketknives (manual blade, less than 3") of most kinds are legal.[1, see exceptions] Bans of this kind are fairly common (for instance, in California, there is a ban on concealed carry of fixed-blade knives; in Los Angeles, the ban extends to openly carrying a "knife or dagger" defined as "any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length".[2] These laws strike me as very reasonable.

[1]https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives [2]https://www.losangelescriminallawyers.com/los-angeles-knife-...

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