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Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#311

Post by samhw »

SSLy wrote: post #304
samhw wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is my experience too, at least in the UK. We had a close family friend whose father, the patriarch of the family, worked for 'the Army' his whole life. It was only after he died that they discovered - somehow - that it was actually 'intelligence' work. I'm sure it's different for secretarial roles, leadership roles, etc, but for the bulk of people it seems like the usual career path is up through the norma…

Arabic and Russian are "exotic" now?

Like the other person said: relative to 'plain' Western European languages – like French, German, Spanish, or Italian – yes, they are. There are some languages in the world which are more exotic, but Arabic and Russian are indeed somewhat exotic to us.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#312

Post by [deleted] »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #291
treis wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future employers will ask your level and if Apple tells them something different they're going to think you're lying. I can see it being problematic when applying to Government or enterprise roles. They will do their due diligence and might rescind an offer if they find a discrepancy.

I'm really curious why employers care at all about your past employment. To me it always seem just a an advertisement if that. How I and my colleagues got hired and makes 100% sense to me: 1. Skim their github 2. Ask questions about their stuff on github or some past work they shared 3. Give them a realistic task and a week to solve and push to github. Evaluate it - very easy to gather the motivation and skill. 4. Ev…

[deleted]

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#313

Post by barelysapient »

bink wrote: post #233
barelysapient wrote: post #163

Apple, a company notorious for secrecy, may have very legitimate reasons for canvassing employee job titles to a single innocuous string. Unless apple signed a contract with another party that promises accurate and historical internal job title disclosure, this is the fault of the validation services who a promising something they’re not able to deliver.

No one in the article or in these comments is saying that what Apple is doing is illegal or violates a contract. It's just a scummy thing to do.

I’m not familiar with any company that does this wittingly.

It’s extends confidential internal data, without context and exposes the company to litigation risks otherwise avoided by a firm ‘no comment’ policy.

For employees at an officer or director level, their job titles are already disclosed via mandatory SEC and other required disclosures.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#314

Post by ncallaway »

tablespoon wrote: post #259
ncallaway wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you mean "Chesterton's Fence"? I get no hits for "Chesteranlon's Razorfence" or "Chesterton's Razorfence." It's a merging of Chesterton's Fence and Hanlon's Razor

>>> Ehh, I think this is a Chesteranlon's Razorfence situatio >> Or are you trying to coin a term? > It's a merging of Chesterton's Fence and Hanlon's Razor Given that's a neologism that was literally introduced here, it probably should have had bit more of an introduction. Infix compounds are really weird in English.

Ok? If you have a problem with the phrase or how it was introduced you should tell torstenvl that.

I was just answering the question you asked because I happened to see the context.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#315

Post by Wiseacre »

axiosgunnar wrote: post #308
Wiseacre wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure a non-zero number of ex-Apple interns will try putting "Senior Software Engineer" on their resume for a $350,000 director gig at a startup.

and risk going to prison for fraud?

If lying on your resume is fraud, then we're going to need a whole lot of prison cells.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#316

Post by axiosgunnar »

Wiseacre wrote: post #315
axiosgunnar wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and risk going to prison for fraud?

If lying on your resume is fraud, then we're going to need a whole lot of prison cells.

„i leveraged prior experience in ultra-scalable real-time systems at the edge with my people skills to produce X“ type of bullshit is different than „i had this very specific role at a large and known company that is only assigned to people that have demonstrated high levels of skill“, the latter is plain fraud if not true.

it‘s like saying „i have a pilot license“ if you don't

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#317

Post by nojito »

pc86 wrote: post #288
nojito wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it say that they wipe it? This is only for 3rd party databases.

Which are the only databases used for verification, unless you're going back to Apple.

Nope. You can get employment/former verification directly from Apple.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#318

Post by KerrAvon »

SilasX wrote: post #10
shapefrog wrote: post #7

Steve Jobs; former associate at Apple.

"Well, he went on medical leave, so we changed his title to Mainstream Medicine Denier and then Organ System Pentester." Reference: https://apecsec.org/steve-jobs-liver-transplant-controversy/

That looks a lot like a link farm. Try this one instead.

https://www.livescience.com/16551-steve-jobs-alternative-med...

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#319

Post by tantalor »

codehitchhiker wrote: post #297
rmah wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then, IMO, all those other companies are the ones people should be complaining about, not Apple. No employer should share employment details beyond "he worked here" with third parties for any reason.

I'm complaining about Apple because they cost me more than $10,000 in wages by being the only ones who LIE. Omission would be nice, especially across the board, but that's not what this is. They put me in a position where I had to prove I didn't lie. If there's a law that employers cannot ask for your previous job title, that's great, but employers shouldn't be allowed to furnish fraudulent data either.

I don't see how its fraud. "Associate" is a pretty generic term for any employee below C-suite or partner.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#320

Post by nunez »

I think this is _mostly_ a non-issue, as providing an offer letter and a paystub from that period of employment usually sidesteps background check verification issues like this. This is why I always save my offer letters and the first paystub. (You can lose access to them after you leave) Failing that, a candidate can usually contact a manager after their departure to verify job title and such.

Of course, this becomes an issue when you don't have good rapport with your manager and don't have proof of employment saved.

Promotions and job transfers usually come with title change and/or offer emails with them as well.

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