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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#731

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Wow, that's really cool. > In January 2020, Visa first showcased the power of “Tap to Phone,” an industry-first solution that transforms current generation Android smartphones and tablets into contactless point of sale terminals. Tap to Phone was Visa’s first offering that let sellers accept payments on the devices they already own, just by downloading an app. As of December 2021, there were more than 300,000 devices…

I am not quite at liberty or have the capability to fully explain all of it. But I can confirm Android is one of the main focus. We actually have a video that showcases the real-life usage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE6OmVd6Fxw&feature=youtu.be A lot of what used to be done on Payment terminals are now done on the cloud.

I completely understand. Kudos to you and everyone who got it all working on Android, given its ridiculous fragmentation *before* you even start talking about NFC and reasoning about about device security :) - I'm guessing the chances are you're probably streaming/proxying the crypto I/O straight from the card into the cloud, thin-client style - basically taking what happens over NFC (which is man-in-the-middle resistant), sending that to the cloud directly without modification, then sending whatever comes back straight into the card. That approach could resonate with a shifting of work from payment terminals to the cloud.

Probably the most interesting story I read about the payment terminal space was about someone who happened to be working on an application/middleware integration and had figured out a cute way to use coroutines in C to (presumably/extrapolating a bit) multiplex the payment-online step while simultaneously settling the payment-offline step, so both could move forward simultaneously and the receipt could print almost immediately (in an era of dialup and maybe ISDN). The auditor who came out to validate and approve the middleware had a brain-BSOD and loudly protested that what he was seeing with his own eyes was not possible, and had to be convinced that the solution wasn't playing fast and loose with the spec requirements to do its thing :D

The payment terminal space seems like it was (and will probably remain for some time) an interesting engineering niche to work in (in terms of crazy application integration and whatnot). Been curious about it for a while with all the janky flickering I see on the screen when the receptionist swipes my healthcare card at the doctor's office (which can process both bank cards and healthcare cards though what looks like a custom application). It'll be very interesting to see how the banking space moves to the cloud and off-the-shelf consumer devices start to replace proprietary terminals and whatnot (and then other industries slowly follow suit, maybe, in a decade or so). I note the press release mentions this infrastructure is available in Australia, but I incidentally haven't seen this in person yet (two years on). Will definitely be keeping an eye out now, and I obviously need to start shopping at more interesting places :P

Thanks for taking the time to share about this!

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#732

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I was wondering about that too. I wonder how much SecureROM extraction pays nowadays? It used to be $200k circa 2015: https://ramtin-amin.fr/#nvmedma (Interim while the above URL currently doesn't work: https://web.archive.org/web/20200217151824/http://ramtin-ami... )

There are publicly available SecureROM dumps online, see http://securerom.fun The author(s) maintain the site out of personal interest.

Oooh, TIL. That's really cool.

It's very amusing that as you get to the bottom the "Vulnerable to" starts to disappear :) and yet you can download the bootrom anyway~ hmmmmm :D

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied abroad in France in 2012--at this time, all European card readers had been chip-based for quite a while and my US credit card didn't have one. I couldn't figure out how to use them and many store clerks had no idea what to do with my magnetic-strip credit card. I went to England in 2019, at which point cards in the US had been updated to use magnetic stripes, and everyone was using tap-to-pay. It turns out…

..just dont go to Germany. We are not very advanced in that regard. Of course huge amounts of stores offer contactless paying, but generally Cash is still dominant around here. Change is slow, and currently, Cash is still king, especially with small or street merchants.

That is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#734
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even, in Apple's case, a consistent "card" attached number at all.

Is that right? My understanding is the physical AppleCard has a fixed number that is simply not printed and relies on rotating CVV via the standard chip reading like most standard chip cards. The device-based ApplePay can rotate its number but that too only rotates CVV by default.

My point was only that the card-chip associated number, the ApplePay associated number, and the number the user hands out to web sites, are not correlated. The user could choose to change their CC number every day when they wake up if they want, and the physical card does not change in any way as a result. Nor does it need to, since you cannot use it outside of the card.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#735

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Please don't confuse the restaurant industry where tips subsidize wages with the original idea of tipping as a sign of gratitude an thanks. A tip can be a meaningful and impactful way to say "You went beyond expectation, did an awesome job and I really appreciate it". Why would you not want that option?

Because it doesn’t actually work that way and it’s in no way an “option”. In reality tipping becomes expected and people withhold it when the service does /not/ meet expectation. That’s awkward and too confrontational for a lot of people so they’ll just tip anyways. Personally I also find it exhausting to have to judge every single service I get. So I just tip a standard amount, there’s absolutely no feedback involve…

In reality in most of the world, that's simply untrue. To most people, the concept of "standard tipping" is absurd.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you allowing your bank to know where you are 24/7? Is inputting a PIN really so bad?

Its done on your device, not on banks side iirc, but its an optional thing you can opt into if you wish, thats not the default config when opening an account (can also be toggled on/off at will in the app, so i'm not too worried about it tbh).

No, it's not done on-device. Think about it: they know where the merchant is for card-present transactions, so how do they know how far apart the card and your phone are if they don't know where your phone is?
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