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Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

netzpolitik.org

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Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#71
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of it is about banning Nazis. What do you think?

[flagged]

Pretty bold to make the assumption that there aren't real Nazis in Germany.

edit: if you were a Nazi and made it past 1953 in West Germany, the only likely further repercussion or punishment for anything you did was maybe an Israeli assassin, if you were famous.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#72
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if Telegram doesn't have a business in Germany, why should they care what laws Germany passes? Porn sites are probably against the law in Saudi Arabia, but why is that Pornhubs problem?

If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.

Except Telegram does not do business in Germany. Even if Germany gets Telegram kicked off the German App Store, they have no way to block Telegram's web servers, which do not need to comply with Germany's jurisdiction.

If they don't go down the route of implementing a state-level firewall such as China is doing, they're fighting a losing battle. And frankly, if Telegram were inaccessible from Germany, the same people would simply use the next messaging app. There's nothing groundbreaking within Telegram that cannot be replicated.

IMHO, this is the government embarrassing themselves with the fact that they've lost the goodwill of a huge chunk of the population and trying to blame Telegram for it - as if the mindset and communication of those unsatisfied people would simply change/disappear if they were no longer able to access Telegram. Which furthermore shows that today's governments still do not understand the internet.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#73
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if Telegram doesn't have a business in Germany, why should they care what laws Germany passes? Porn sites are probably against the law in Saudi Arabia, but why is that Pornhubs problem?

If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.

Does this apply to China as well?

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#74
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean if Telegram doesn't have a business in Germany, why should they care what laws Germany passes? Porn sites are probably against the law in Saudi Arabia, but why is that Pornhubs problem?

If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.

It doesn't seem like Telegram is actually doing business in Germany. I feel like simply having German citizens using your app doesn't mean that the nation state of Germany has the same authority over your business as if you were actually registered as a GmbH in their territory.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#75

The article is written in German, but with a Google Translate you can understand the just of it. Apparently Telegram added a new blocking system based on phone numbers, sorta a geo-blocking thing, and people with German phone numbers registered on their Telegram accounts aren't able to access those blocked channels. Also, unlike the previous block this one applies even to the users who are using the app downloaded di…

Another reason to use Element (Matrix), where phone number is not required.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#76
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does signal have one-to-many communication? (like telegram channels)

Not in a way that achieves the same purpose as Telegram. Telegram is like Twitter, which is well suited for interaction with people you don't know. No wasted effort on security since everyone is speaking in public anyway. Signal groups are poor at that. The work required to encrypt messages increases with group members. People don't want to show their phone numbers in large public groups, and Signal also lacks the gr…

Then I don't think that Signal is a viable alternative in this case.

Atilla Hildemann used his channel as a one-to-many broadcast. He doesn't want a group chat.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#78
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone was fine until some of the people who are against the Covid regulations started with comparing the vaccinations to the holocaust, wearing stars which resembled the "Judenstern" given out by the Nazis with the word "unvaccinated" on them to demontrations and alike. You can do lots of crazy stuff and talk a lot of shit in Germany, but relavating the holocaust is off-bounds for good reason.

I do not understand this logic. The "Judenstern" predated the Holocaust by a long time, so they are comparing mandatory vaccination to a slippery slope rather than the to end of the slope. The "Judenstern" is how it all started , i.e (in their view), by segregating clean and unclean groups with vaccine checks. It is insensitive, but by doing it they are clearly anti-Nazi. They are not belittling the Holocaust and the…

The Judenstern as referenced here is specifically the yellow star jews were forced to wear during and just before WW2. That is how they're entirely styled. The rhetoric that is used by people doing this is very much comparing vaccine mandates to the Nazi regime's crimes.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.

Except Telegram does not do business in Germany. Even if Germany gets Telegram kicked off the German App Store, they have no way to block Telegram's web servers, which do not need to comply with Germany's jurisdiction. If they don't go down the route of implementing a state-level firewall such as China is doing, they're fighting a losing battle. And frankly, if Telegram were inaccessible from Germany, the same people…

> Even if Germany gets Telegram kicked off the German App Store, they have no way to block Telegram's web servers, which do not need to comply with Germany's jurisdiction.

For what it's worth, the NRW Landesmedienanstalt is busy establishing a DNS-level censorship infrastructure against Pornhub, Youporn, MyDirtyHobby and others [1]. It won't take long until providers will be forced to also add Telegram's infrastructure to that list.

[1]: https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/landesmedienanstalt-kann...

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#80

Why do the German people allow their government to do this kind of stuff? Do they want it?

Do you live in a country that allows ISIS to communicate freely and openly? I live in the US, I know infinitely more people that have been hurt by rogue showerheads than ISIS, yet even publicly saying that you support them and their aims can get you put in prison. edit: "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a reason given for jailing US socialists who were protesting against the WWI draft.

> edit: "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a reason given for jailing US socialists who were protesting against the WWI draft.

This is no longer standing case law as it was overturned by Brandbenburg v. Ohio

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