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Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

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Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#61

Post by gkalrq »

martin_a wrote: post #30
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #10

Why do the German people allow their government to do this kind of stuff? Do they want it?

I think everyone was fine until some of the people who are against the Covid regulations started with comparing the vaccinations to the holocaust, wearing stars which resembled the "Judenstern" given out by the Nazis with the word "unvaccinated" on them to demontrations and alike. You can do lots of crazy stuff and talk a lot of shit in Germany, but relavating the holocaust is off-bounds for good reason.

I do not understand this logic. The "Judenstern" predated the Holocaust by a long time, so they are comparing mandatory vaccination to a slippery slope rather than the to end of the slope. The "Judenstern" is how it all started, i.e (in their view), by segregating clean and unclean groups with vaccine checks.

It is insensitive, but by doing it they are clearly anti-Nazi. They are not belittling the Holocaust and they are not comparing vaccine mandates to the Holocaust.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#62

Post by mschuster91 »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #49
YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.

Sure you can, and it is censorship if a country is banning your platform for not censoring public discourse. That is exactly what is happening here. It would be like liberals in the US blocking Telegram nationwide for allowing anti-mandate discussion and then saying the reason has not nothing to do with censorship.

> It would be like liberals in the US blocking Telegram nationwide for allowing anti-mandate discussion and then saying the reason has not nothing to do with censorship.

People on the blocked Telegram channels have denied the Holocaust (including the channel operator himself) which is a crime in Germany, Austria and 16 other European countries [1] or called for the murder, disfigurement or other injuries to politicians [2].

"Anti-mandate discussions" are bad enough, but unlike what went on in Hildmann's channels this stuff isn't criminal so the comparison of yours is a bit wrong.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetze_gegen_Holocaustleugnun...

[2] https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/hunderte-morda...

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#63

Post by hutzlibu »

sascha_sl wrote: post #46
hutzlibu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Germany's constitution explicitly denies freedom of speech to Nazis." Not exactly like this. You are allowed to speak your mind as a Nazi. You may say you are a Nazi and also say why you think they are superior etc. blablabla. You are not allowed, to wear certain symbols of NS times (swastika and co) and you are not allowed to deny that the holocaust happened and to glorify certain SS organisations.

While it is not the constitution, but the criminal code, being a nazi without at least a basic veil of decency will get you jailed for publicly voicing your beliefs: Whosoever, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace: incites hatred against a national, racial, religious group or a group defined by their ethnic origins, against segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of t…

Well, in theory you can also go to jail, for saying you think the catholic church is a organisation of criminal pedophiles. (blasphemie paragraph)

Does not happen in reality, though.

There are Nazis in jail though for denying the holocaust (Horst Mahler) and for trying to incite violence (Landser). Not for expressing their nazi ideology, but for direct calls for murder.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#64

Post by pessimizer »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #10

Why do the German people allow their government to do this kind of stuff? Do they want it?

Do you live in a country that allows ISIS to communicate freely and openly?

I live in the US, I know infinitely more people that have been hurt by rogue showerheads than ISIS, yet even publicly saying that you support them and their aims can get you put in prison.

edit: "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a reason given for jailing US socialists who were protesting against the WWI draft.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#65

Post by gkalrq »

delecti wrote: post #55
thgaFa wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's pretty "no true Scottsman". Some of the Ottawa protesters are waving swastika flags. If it walks like a duck and waves duck flags. Sources citing the presence of swastika flags, (linking multiple because a couple are paywalled): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/world/canada/ottawa-truck... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/thousands-protest-covid... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ottawa-covid-trucker-…

The mainstream found 5 people (possibly provocateurs) with a Swastika flag and only published these pictures instead of the 10,000 other peaceful protesters.

This is pure propaganda. I suggest you listen to the press conferences of the organizers on YouTube. They are nice people.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#67

Post by encryptluks2 »

colechristensen wrote: post #19
jevoten wrote: post #9

Avoid censorship with this one weird trick: Print the information in a book, and put it in a library, or even on a school curriculum, if you can. If anyone tries to remove the book, then we are back to the dark ages of book banning or even burning. You know who else burned books, right? On the other hand, if the book is prevented from being published or stocked in the first place, if school or public libraries simply…

Germany bans things like Holocaust denial and certain things about far right political parties. It’s not the American way but I’m quite ok with Germany doing this.

No post body was provided.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#69

Post by sva_ »

EGreg wrote: post #17

This is what happens when you have a centralized software. Germany can just get the app removed from app stores: https://voi.id/en/technology/114013/senior-german-official-a... And this is true of other centralized software: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/09/18/the-freest-platform-...

Hmm, but if your app was decentralized, they could still remove it from the app stores? Which would effectively prevent 95% of people from using it, probably.

Re: Telegram now censoring channels in Germany for “violating local laws”

#70

Post by skrause »

pessimizer wrote: post #4
estranhosidade wrote: post #2

The article is written in German, but with a Google Translate you can understand the just of it. Apparently Telegram added a new blocking system based on phone numbers, sorta a geo-blocking thing, and people with German phone numbers registered on their Telegram accounts aren't able to access those blocked channels. Also, unlike the previous block this one applies even to the users who are using the app downloaded di…

Probably makes sense. I'm not super familiar with Telegram, but to know a channel is doing stuff that's against German law probably means that someone with access to the channel reported it to authorities. Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general, which the US didn't really do until after 9/11. Banning a group chat isn't much different.

> Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general

You make it sound like Germany is constantly banning political parties. There have been exactly two bans of political parties in the post-war history of Germany: A nazi party in 1952 and a communist party in 1956. Also don't forget who occupied Germany in this decade and made a lot of its decisions.

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