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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#791

Post by YATA0 »

nova22033 wrote: post #652
at_a_remove wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go look at Google's Mother's Day doodles. Go look at Google's Father's Day doodles (if you can find them, suspiciously absent for a while). "Men are trash." "Men are awful." Then look up on Wikipedia the "Women are wonderful" effect. And of course the ever-popular "dick is abundant and low-value." You get suggestions like white people should be vaccinated last. And so on and so on. It just never stops. It's hard to b…

Go look at Google's Father's Day doodles Maybe stop relying on google front page doodles for your own sense of self-worth?

It has nothing to do with self-worth. It's all about the leftist societal subversion of men.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#792

Post by danans »

rayiner wrote: post #269
ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

> You can point to the decline of organized religion and with it traditional gender roles, but then what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? As far as I can tell, Europe isn’t all that post-Christian. Even countries that have low levels of people actively practicing religion still carry a strong cultural legacy from Christianity: https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... Co…

> Counterintuitively, America’s lack of a generous welfare system tends to destabilize traditional gender roles.

I don't think that's so counterintuitive. Generous welfare systems give more people the opportunity to pursue the work lifestyle they would like to rather than the one they would have to to make ends meet if the generous welfare system didn't exist.

That's a totally different scenario than gender roles being enforced by religious or cultural restrictions. That also promotes traditional gender roles but doesn't give individuals a choice in the matter.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#794

Post by throwaway46jt7 »

mbfg wrote: post #695

I think a big part of the despair is the obvious difference between what children are taught is the american dream vs what the american reality is. We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look. And then you look at reality and see something else. Sure there are pockets of excellen…

> We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look.

What other countries are great compared to America? With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships, create multi billion dollar tech companies in less than a decade.

Any ideology that forces individual to be less ambitious for the prosperity of the group only gives more power to the enforcer's of the ideology. As an insider you may not realize how powerful America's culture of individual freedom has impact on other countries.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#795

Post by leto_ii »

rayiner wrote: post #682
nautilius wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that 'cultural legacy' is completely different from 'organized religion'. Celebrating 'Christmas' as a family get-together is completely different from celebrating the arrival of the messiah and deriving your complete moral compass from that.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

No post body was provided.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#796

Post by dragonwriter »

rayiner wrote: post #682
nautilius wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that 'cultural legacy' is completely different from 'organized religion'. Celebrating 'Christmas' as a family get-together is completely different from celebrating the arrival of the messiah and deriving your complete moral compass from that.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

> Consider, for example, the obsession in Christian countries with equality.

I think you are confusing “Western liberal democratic societies” with “Christian countries”. The latter are a subset of historically Christian countries (many are more accurately post-Christian, now), but plenty of Christian countries are not Western liberal democracies and those do not fit the mold you are trying to fit “Christian countries” into.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#797

Post by pcmoney »

MetricExpansion wrote: post #747
pcmoney wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has taken more people out of poverty than anything else on planet earth and produced incredible abundance and flourishing in the past 200 years. Socialism has failed every time it has been tried. (Also stop describing everything you don’t like as “Capitalism”, it is intellectually lazy, instead describe what aspect of Capitalism caused the thing you don’t like directly and provably and with a clear alterna…

I have increasingly noticed this general trend (here, on Reddit, and elsewhere) to just blame a myriad of societal ills on “Capitalism”. Sometimes it’s related to economics or whatever, but more often it’s really a non-sequitur. Some of the problems blamed on Capitalism, it’s not at all clear how communism or socialism or any other system would result in a different outcome. It’s become a thought-ending cliche.

Agree, just tribal signaling, “thing I thoughtlessly think is bad is bad”

I feel the same about every bad weather event being “caused” by climate change in the media. The models predictions are so vague people could blame anything on climate change. Not saying climate change isn’t happening, it is, but blaming everything on it is intellectually dishonest, costs legitimacy, and can lead to poor policy.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#798

Post by skinkestek »

rpmisms wrote: post #591
noetic_techy wrote: post #536

Sorry WP, too little too late. I don't think the "mainstream" has fully caught on yet, but all those disaffected men are getting nothing from these empty "we see there's a problem" articles and empty half-acknowledgements, because the entire political and academic system is now fully aligned against them. Lots of men these days are all turning to Red Pill content online whether you agree or not because its the only c…

Anecdotally, Jordan Peterson didn't fix my mental health, but I had a good dad and a sense of direction growing up. He's seriously helped my friends who have absent or abusive fathers. Teaching men about their duties in society and to themselves is crucial.

Another anecdote: Jordan Peterson helped my brother too.

Went from being raging mad at his family and others to start taking responsibility for his own life.

I still disagree with him but we can now speak together.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#799

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

ctrl_s wrote: post #789
rayiner wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

> Consider, for example, the obsession in Christian countries with equality. They almost fall over themselves to welcome people from different ethnic backgrounds. I suspect this has something to do with Christianity’s origins as a Jewish religion adopted by the Gentiles My experiences are almost the complete opposite to yours, I suspect there are major differences between congregations that can't be applied to the na…

Keep in mind, that the Southern Baptist church literally exists because the Baptist convention started asking thorny questions concerning slavery and Christianity. In light of that discussion, the southern congregations broke off to form a convention that would welcome African slavery[1] and have white supremacy as a bedrock principle. Sure, there are plenty of blacks in the Southern Baptist denomination, but they attend black churches for the reasons you've noted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention#Di...

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#800

Post by ehnto »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #616
colechristensen wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While a lot of the west is “post Christian” in that very little actual worship happens, the mythology which is the lens people view reality though is very much pervasive. The biggest examples are Christian sexual morality and the separation of things into good vs evil. Look at all of our popular culture or politics and find examples of struggles which aren’t some form of a struggle between good and evil, good guys vs…

You focus on sexual morality, but I don't think Christian sexual morality is particularly unusual. (Confucian sexual mores look a lot like Christian sexual mores). To me what makes the cultural background of Christianity unusual is that it focuses on individuals striving to follow abstract virtues. 'Sinners' recognizing that they have done harm and then seeking to do less harm. The lazy believer is slothful, and so c…

> One might also argue that the history of belief in personal sin makes European cultures more self-depreciating, but I feel the Japanese are more self-depreciating than the Europeans.

I think that has more to do with collectivism vs individualism, which itself may be to do with hierarchy and community. Those values may have been endowed through religion over time, but I don't know enough about Shintoism or Buddhism to comment on if it influenced Japan into becoming a collective focused society.

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