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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#761

Post by visarga »

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

I think the trend is in the opposite direction - the more we advance as a society, the less evolutionary filtering is applied to the population. That means genetic regression over time.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#762

Post by bradlys »

twayt wrote: post #677
awaythrow483 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

As a mid-20s male I can completely relate. Have spent way too much time trying to optimize the amount of matches I can get on these apps. You might feel like your achievements and positive qualities are not being valued by women and you've worked so hard to improve yourself for nothing. Trust me, this is not true. There are other factors at play that make online dating unreasonably unfair for you. 1. If you are in th…

In case anyone doesn't know:

> If you are in the Bay Area, you are at a distinct disadvantage. The male-female-ratio

This is just true in the entire USA under age 35. If you're a man - you have a distinct disadvantage. More men (107:100) are born than women. This evens out around age 40 because men killed themselves at a much higher rate than women have. (Think about that - women kill themselves too but 7% of men have to off themselves to just even it out if all the women lived)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#763

Post by javajosh »

mbfg wrote: post #695

I think a big part of the despair is the obvious difference between what children are taught is the american dream vs what the american reality is. We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look. And then you look at reality and see something else. Sure there are pockets of excellen…

>Women, on the other hand, haven't been given the same advertising on the American dream that men have

There is a documentary, "Born Rich" [0]. It's interviews with the children of very rich people, done by one of their peers. I noticed that in the film there is stark difference between the girls and the boys: the girls were all well adjusted, enjoying their wealth, happy, satisfied, seemingly well-aware of their good fortune; but for ALL the boys wealth meant having a full-blown existential crisis.

This is oblique support for your claim: the classic American dream for women results in being taken care of by a wealthy man in a nice house, maybe with kids, where even house duties become negligible if he's really rich. But men and boys are supposed to work, first at learning then finding something you like then getting good at it. Your work defines you in a very profound way - a profundity that is reflected in our last names. If you're a rich boy, it's like you've been denied an identity. (I recall one of the young men who, to save his sanity, disavowed his inheritance to take a job as an oil field worker. And he seemed the best adjusted of the boys.).

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Rich_(2003_film)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#764

Post by dillondoyle »

lph wrote: post #46

Andrew Yang makes some good points in this piece, particularly about positive masculinity and role models. Whether fair or not, the perception that the left is hostile to men has driven recruitment for the far right, and that merits some reflection. But he's also really facile about underlying economic causes. It's easy to blame problems on "our culture has been broken by the wokes!", but many of the problems of youn…

The politics side of this scares me too. And I don't really have an answer.

Ideas for how we can push for more equality, inclusivity, opportunity, without causing this far-right reaction?

Maybe it's unavoidable since we're often talking about structural change to benefit one group, and the other side feel (wrongly) that for others to have more they have to have less. All lives matter is an example.

The same thing is happening with trans and queer rights (which also tags along with gender roles like this article talks about).

A scary % of people feel under attack or at least a group of politicians is generating/amplifying this for their gain.

I'm about to be a bit facetious but scarily not really, a lot of people truly think that a mob of commies is trying to recruit their kids to be gay/trans and that 'men/boys' (part of the issue here is their understanding of gender) will invade their bathrooms and take over their sports.

This backlash is actually producing legislation to further political agendas and harm kids.

This weeks "Don't say gay" bill in Florida is shocking to me.

Would ban LGBTQ topics in schools. And likely force counselors to out kids to their parents, lest they be sued - the TX trick that is going to be abused on all social issues from now on.

It's like one step forward culturally, two steps back legally.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#765

Post by mrtweetyhack »

adriand wrote: post #441
skinkestek wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever the cause I fully reject the lazy conclusion this is somehow women's fault. Of course! The problem is not women! The problem is media, schools, companies, everyone buying into this in a collective delusion. Men also think this, but unlike women we are even encouraged to strengthen these insane ideas that we are somehow inferior (gets imprisoned more often, less academic success despite supposedly being ext…

Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else. What I find…

You have the power? Break the law, you get more jail time than women. Get a divorce, women automatically get the children and half of your assets and you pay alimony. They cry rape and you are instantly guilty. But you are right, women aren't the problem. You are.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#766

Post by slim »

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

off topic. is the usage of the word "aggressor" here correct in english? I'm not a native speaker and I never seen it used in a non violent context

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#767

Post by blackoil »

nautilius wrote: post #745
rayiner wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

Quoted post unavailable.

He is using Indian numerals and roman script. Though with Bangladeshi ancestry he can make full claim on the numerals.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#768

Post by throwabaleofhay »

I walked up around a local area recently. Most days I go for a walk, just to be outside, for silence, to keep a baseline level of fitness. I probably walk an average of 2-3km every day, sometimes no walk, sometimes a 16km walk. It's something that keeps me at least a little bit connected to life.

On one of those walks recently I went across a bridge to a lake. There is a stream or river under the bridge, depends on your definition, its was about 30 foot wide but under one foot deep. It's a beautiful area, on the border of city and country.

And it was quiet, peaceful, no people around. There was only 2 problems:

a) while the water was shallow enough to not break my fall, the drop from the bridge was not high enough, and I would likely just break a bunch of bones and survive anyway

b) I don't want to die.

I am bitter, and I think I have a right to be bitter, even though I know it's not healthy or a smart thing to feel.

But I _am_ bitter, because I was lied to.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#769

Post by jmopp »

atq2119 wrote: post #691
nautilius wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You prove my point. You won't find many atheists (if any) that will take Jesus as in any shape or form a historical person. These are two different worlds. Atheists don't derive their morals from these stories, that's the difference. That there is some superficial overlap (a tree? presents?) doesn't allow you to claim the morality of atheists as religion-derived. That's ludicrous. It's like saying the local butcher t…

> You won't find many atheists (if any) that will take Jesus as in any shape or form a historical person. Raises hand: Atheist here who thinks that a historical Jesus is at least plausible. Obviously not a son of god, though, that would have been embellishment by later generations.

This. The existence of Jesus says nothing about his divinity or the validity of Christianity. We have more evidence for the existence of Muhammad. Does that make Islam the 'correct' religion? We have even more evidence for the existence of Joseph Smith. Does that make Mormonism the 'correct' religion? We have video recordings of L. Ron Hubbard, along with many people still alive who have met him. Does that make Scientology the 'correct' religion?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#770

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rayiner wrote: post #682
nautilius wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that 'cultural legacy' is completely different from 'organized religion'. Celebrating 'Christmas' as a family get-together is completely different from celebrating the arrival of the messiah and deriving your complete moral compass from that.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

"think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate."

The cultural legacy of modern Europe is that of Renaissance, which is a partial rejection of many religious morals and practices we would find abhorrent today. Like burning heretics, astronomers and philosophers at the stake, witch hunts, etc.

People were put to death for translating the Bible into english from latin, mind you.

There was a re-discovery and embracement of great works antiquity, think ancient Greece.

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