Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 1001 posts

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#211

Post by hnthrway »

jeffbee wrote: post #79
ramesh31 wrote: post #27

Men's comparative advantage, throughout human history, has always been their physical strength. It was the one thing a man could count on to provide value to society. That is no longer the case in our modern economy. You need intelligence, emotional intellect, and analytical skills. All of which men and women are on an equal footing at. So when you remove the ability to generate a viable income through physical labor…

Males have biological advantages in visual-spatial thinking. "Rotators vs. wordcels" is not just a weird meme.

I have never seen this meme

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#212

Post by alphabettsy »

bmj wrote: post #54
alphabettsy wrote: post #20

Purely anecdotal, but it was uncool, dorky, nerdy, etc. where I grew up for boys to be interested in math or even English, but “more manly stuff” like working with your hands was highly encouraged. It seems that kind of culture will result in men being less likely to end up in higher paying careers.l than girls who are being encouraged to pursue STEM.

You do realize that a career in the skilled trades can lead to very good pay, right? Yes, the work can be hard, and the hours sometimes long, but there are very clear paths to working independently, or for small shops/contractors that provide a nice degree of independence and good pay. I think high school kids in the U.S. should be exposed to STEM, the humanities, and the trades. We have pushed college/academic achie…

Did I say anything to indicate otherwise?

In my area nearly every high school including the one I attended offered great programs that for many lead to careers in the trades.

I know several people who were in one of the trades programs who decided it wasn’t for them and seemed to wander aimlessly just like many of my friends who went to university.

Maybe the issue isn’t opportunity for training or trades vs university?

On a side note a skilled trade career can pay very well, but is it reasonable to expect everyone will be a union-member or own a business? Union support seems to be declining in the US and owning and running is business is not for most people.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#213

Post by tsol »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #26

Of course. We treat females like they are a marginalized minority. My son’s school has a “Girls Can Code” program. All collateral features women and girls. (Boys are welcome though) I worked at a place where a C-level executive hosted company endorsed dinners at her home for female managers to mentor them for executive roles. If I setup a boys club for computers at school or hosted a men’s IT society at work, that wo…

Girls and women are marginalised in the area of technology. This site in particular has hosted terabytes of discussion of this problem. If you look back at some of the stories about conferences and why codes of conduct have been set up, you will see at least part of the publicly visible part of this. This is why it’s perfectly socially acceptable to set up a specific group to give women and girls a chance to learn sk…

What does discussion on HN have to do with programs in schools? Really-- the tech industry may have issues but they are separate from how we raise and educate children, and the messaging we send those kids

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#214

Post by newaccount74 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #122
mandmandam wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't mysterious. The people sucking money out of the wage pool are the 1% class, not women. 20 trillion in debt for illegal and stupid wars probably didn't help either, though it does tie in once again with the 1% class.

> The people sucking money out of the wage pool are the 1% class, not women What does that mean?

It means that employees are paid less so more profits go to the shareholders.

It's not men vs women, but workers vs owners.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#215

Post by lph »

jimbokun wrote: post #197
lph wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hosted a men’s IT society at work Maybe, just maybe, the point of those events for women has something to do with the fact that everything else in the tech world is a de-facto boys' club. My current team at work: 6 men. Previous team at a different company: 27 men, 3 women. The team before that: 5 men. The team before that: 10 men, 2 women. I guess we can debate "marginalized", but women are unquestionably a minori…

So were those teams trying to exclude women? Or just no (or few) women that wanted to be part of those teams? Right now, tech companies are desperate to hire anyone qualified. Are you saying they are deliberately excluding women from consideration? From what I've seen, all the tech employers are desperate to hire and promote women, and there are just very few women interested.

No, the teams weren't trying to exclude women. Not at all. They were representative of the company and the entire industry. There are very few women in tech.

So then the question is why are very few women in tech? If you really dive into this, it's a chicken-and-egg problem: The fact that so few women are in tech makes the whole scene into sort of a frat house, which is often not a welcoming or kind environment to women, so women avoid it. A feedback loop. And one way you can try to combat that is by encouraging entry into the field. Et voilà: "Girls who code".

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#216

Post by 202202092037 »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #199
YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have some respect for yourself.

What do you mean? This is already happening. And in general single mothers are becoming the norm, as the article already mentions.

He meant have some respect for youself and don't get involved with such women.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#217

Post by klodolph »

muh_gradle wrote: post #194
klodolph wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> great book on this topic is friedan's feminine mystique (1963) Another is “The Will To Love: Men, Masculinity, and Change” by bell hooks (2004) There aren’t a lot of authors that I feel get it right about issues relating to men and masculinity. Bell hooks is one of the few. > not sure how yang made this his topic. my sense of his random walk is 'had a job at yahoo' -> future of work -> UBI -> numbers guy -> times s…

I also live in NYC, and completely disagree with this take on Yang. I can't think of anyone who gets hated more unfairly than him. He provides actual substantive policy suggestions with evidence to support his claims. He doesn't resort to dirty muck-raking the same way that the other mayoral candidates and the NY Times did. In fact, NY Times and the NY Daily News spent so much time focusing on bashing Yang that it's…

I read the policies on Yang's website during the NYC race and dug into them.

> He provides actual substantive policy suggestions with evidence to support his claims.

This is untrue. The policy suggestions are all poorly researched and reminded me of the kind of ideas you'd see on a comedy show like Silicon Valley... you know, TV depictions of tech bros coming up with "solutions" for problems that they don't understand.

I'm not saying that they were all laughable, but it was very hit or miss. Yang had some good ideas mixed in with bad ideas, and I think a combination of inexperience, lack of deeper research, and a refusal to listen to experts is what caused all the problems in his policies.

> In fact, NY Times and the NY Daily News spent so much time focusing on bashing Yang that it's literally the reason why Eric Adams of all people ended up being our mayor.

Yang ran a incompetent campaign. He relied far too heavily on internet presence--Twitter, Reddit, etc. I don't know why he thought that was enough. Say what you will about Eric Adams--Adams wasn't in my top 5, and so I didn't vote for him--but Eric Adams knew how to work with the press and he spent far more time hitting the streets during the election than Yang did. Adams was far more in touch with the people in NYC who vote, far more knowledgeable about how the press works, and had experience with NYC politics.

You can complain about "hit pieces", but Yang was out of touch with most voters in NYC, made a series of obvious PR blunders, showed no competence at working with the press, and had nearly zero experience working with NYC politics... Yang didn't even vote in local elections.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#218

Post by tsol »

vharuck wrote: post #208
jimbokun wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now try proposing a space that caters to men and helps them learn and feel better.

Not to be flippant, but have you seen somebody try this and fail or be stopped? What would be the purpose of the group? Why would it need to cater to men? These aren't rhetorical questions. I'm genuinely asking.

>If they feel better in a space that specifically caters to women, and if by them feeling better, they actually learn the skills

This can't apply to men? I believe there were such clubs and they were considered sexist in the past. I don't see why it's so strange an idea that men might like a club where they can be catered to and taught in a way that works for them.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#219

Post by fiftyfifty »

sharikous wrote: post #154
fiftyfifty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've coached high school sports teams, both boys and girls, for the last two decades. I've seen some of these trends unfold over the years with my student athletes. My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, even for something fun like sports practices and workouts, girls in general will show up more consistently than boys. The teachers I've spoken to at the school where I coach have confirmed the sam…

> My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, Do you see that as innate or as a symptom of society's biases?

I think it's probably some of both. Boys are definitely more distracted with stuff like video games than girls, but then again many girls are absolutely obsessed with social media (TikTok/Snapchat etc) and still manage to succeed in school and sports. I do also think it has to do with the age of maturation, girls just mature earlier than boys.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#220

Post by 202202092037 »

ok_dad wrote: post #162
Beltalowda wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed; how is it fair that men are "forced" to work and provide income (with all the stress associated for that, especially for low-earners) and are "forced" to miss out on their kids? It seems to me that's just as much of an injustice as women being "forced" to stay at home. ("forced" in quotes as it's not strongly forced, but rather "forced" by expectations, prospects, etc.) I've long considered traditional gender…

Men are socialized to work by the same society that women are socialized to stay home and make babies. Feminism's direct goals would be breaking that down so that men could stay home (unfortunately we cannot make babies) and women could work, or any other combination, without the traditional gender role boundaries. Feminism's goals are good for everyone.

> Feminism's direct goals would be breaking that down so that men could stay home

Please kindly let me know where such sort of feminism is happening - I would like to move there.

Post reply on HN