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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#151

Post by dageshi »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #112
lph wrote: post #46

Andrew Yang makes some good points in this piece, particularly about positive masculinity and role models. Whether fair or not, the perception that the left is hostile to men has driven recruitment for the far right, and that merits some reflection. But he's also really facile about underlying economic causes. It's easy to blame problems on "our culture has been broken by the wokes!", but many of the problems of youn…

I've coached high school sports teams, both boys and girls, for the last two decades. I've seen some of these trends unfold over the years with my student athletes. My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, even for something fun like sports practices and workouts, girls in general will show up more consistently than boys. The teachers I've spoken to at the school where I coach have confirmed the sam…

This is speculation on my part, but I've felt that it's because women know they may want a child in their lifetime and due to their biological clock it gives them a window to plan back from.

They know they should do it between certain ages which means they need a career which means they need an education e.t.c.

There's nothing equivalent for men, no event they can see coming within a decade or two that helps anchor them in their lives.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#152

Post by giantg2 »

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

I don't know. It seems like the middle to upper class is having fewer kids, while the lower middle class and poor are having more kids. This could be a bunch of different factors like most needing dual income to do well but not having time with the kids, assistance programs increasing and targeting kids, etc. The ability of people to connect via dating services is high, including the people you categorized as not passing on genetics to be able to meet others in the same category.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#153

Post by rustybelt »

tmnstr85 wrote: post #104

White, straight, male, 37 with two kids. One who is severely disabled and under the age of 5. In the past couple of years, its become clear to me that I will probably become a caretaker to my daughter at some point in my life. The prospects of keeping a full time job, in my field are quickly changing - I am no longer desired. Doing this in a financial services setting is especially stark because there's no empathy. I…

Would you mind sharing the region of the country you live in? This is unlike anything I've ever heard of in my small city in the midwest.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#154

Post by sharikous »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #112
lph wrote: post #46

Andrew Yang makes some good points in this piece, particularly about positive masculinity and role models. Whether fair or not, the perception that the left is hostile to men has driven recruitment for the far right, and that merits some reflection. But he's also really facile about underlying economic causes. It's easy to blame problems on "our culture has been broken by the wokes!", but many of the problems of youn…

I've coached high school sports teams, both boys and girls, for the last two decades. I've seen some of these trends unfold over the years with my student athletes. My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys, even for something fun like sports practices and workouts, girls in general will show up more consistently than boys. The teachers I've spoken to at the school where I coach have confirmed the sam…

> My observation is girls are just more motivated than boys,

Do you see that as innate or as a symptom of society's biases?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#155

Post by newaccount74 »

frenchy wrote: post #107
decafninja wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do many married men really want that kind of life though? It's one thing to be single and roaming the world carefree. But my observation has been that most men who are married, especially if with children, have some innate desire to provide for the family and not being able to do so (due to unemployment, underemployment, etc.) causes them stress even if the wife is earning more than enough. Those that don't seem to b…

I, for one, would like it, and I think I'd like it more than my wife. My personality is well suited to being a stay at home parent. I like chaos, and I like working with my hands. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of reduced-hour programming jobs, and our financial situation isn't such that one of us can be full-time stay-at-home. Another thing is that it's awkard for breast-feeding women to be away from their babies…

You can do consulting part time, or go indie, then you can work as much or as little as you want. As a programmer you really have a lot of options.

Or adjust your lifestyle to not need to earn so much.

If you really want to stay home, there's probably a way to make it work.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#156

Post by bitwize »

jeffbee wrote: post #79
ramesh31 wrote: post #27

Men's comparative advantage, throughout human history, has always been their physical strength. It was the one thing a man could count on to provide value to society. That is no longer the case in our modern economy. You need intelligence, emotional intellect, and analytical skills. All of which men and women are on an equal footing at. So when you remove the ability to generate a viable income through physical labor…

Males have biological advantages in visual-spatial thinking. "Rotators vs. wordcels" is not just a weird meme.

First time I heard of rotators and wordcels, but yeah, when I was in high school we were actually given tests to see how much of a rotator or wordcel we really were -- the idea being to make career suggestions based on the results. I did fairly well on the rotator tests, which involved things like telling which way a particular gear or pulley in a given mechanism will turn. I struggled with the wordcel tests, which involved picking out a sequence of letters.

Do you know who ran the board on the wordcel tests? Like, all of the girls.

Just another anecdata point, so don't take it seriously.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#157

Post by [deleted] »

tmnstr85 wrote: post #104

White, straight, male, 37 with two kids. One who is severely disabled and under the age of 5. In the past couple of years, its become clear to me that I will probably become a caretaker to my daughter at some point in my life. The prospects of keeping a full time job, in my field are quickly changing - I am no longer desired. Doing this in a financial services setting is especially stark because there's no empathy. I…

[deleted]

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#158

Post by decafninja »

nicoburns wrote: post #135
decafninja wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do many married men really want that kind of life though? It's one thing to be single and roaming the world carefree. But my observation has been that most men who are married, especially if with children, have some innate desire to provide for the family and not being able to do so (due to unemployment, underemployment, etc.) causes them stress even if the wife is earning more than enough. Those that don't seem to b…

Does doing the actual childcare not constitute providing for their family? I'd argue that if men see bringing in an income as providing and not other things (and I don't think that's universal at all) then that's entirely cultural.

"Providing for the family" traditionally refers to bringing in an income. Of course technically that's not the only thing, but for argument's sake.

I'm curious - are there any human cultures where the woman was the traditionally (as in, not a recent modern phenomenon) the breadwinner and the men stayed at home? I know there are cultures that were matriarchal in leadership, and that there are animal species (i.e. lions) where the female does the hunting. But were there any true "Amazon" cultures in the past?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#159

Post by [deleted] »

tmnstr85 wrote: post #104

White, straight, male, 37 with two kids. One who is severely disabled and under the age of 5. In the past couple of years, its become clear to me that I will probably become a caretaker to my daughter at some point in my life. The prospects of keeping a full time job, in my field are quickly changing - I am no longer desired. Doing this in a financial services setting is especially stark because there's no empathy. I…

[deleted]

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#160

Post by [deleted] »

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

[deleted]
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