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Open Textbook Initiative

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61–70 of 89 posts

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#61
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work in the textbook industry. I’m going back to school. My networking course recently changed from CCNA to CompTIA network plus content. I complained that I pay tuition and my coursework labs and tests for over 85% of the marks, are all done via CompTIAs cloud service. And this costs over $200. On top of this, CompTIA charges the school thousands of dollars a year for the right to teach their content. So I…

Western Governor's University [1] is a good deal for IT-related online degrees. They are $3920 per 6 month term, no matter how many or few classes you take that term. You can take the tests for most classes without having taken the class and get credit for passing, so if you already know a subject required for the degree would can satisfy the requirement that way. The cost of certifications that you earn along the wa…

I have a degree from an accredited online institution, and it holds literally no sway at tech companies. In fact, it’s a hindrance. I was self taught before I got the degree, and while you still won’t get past HRs screening for most interesting jobs, you will, at least, get industry props for being a “go getter”. With the degree I’ve hit more glass walls and ceiling’s because it’s not from a “good school”, and in their eyes I am no longer self taught either.

Think long and hard about doing an online degree, and what you think it’ll do for you.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#63
post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

It's definitely not just the publishers. I think rackets like this work so effectively because bellies get buttered all the way down. At one class at my university (an early chem class) the author of the book was also the professor of the course. And each year it was a new version which didn't do a whole lot more than fix some typos, introduce some new ones to be fixed next year, and change (probably automatically th…

Every course like that which allows rating of the course should get negatively reviewed for exactly this reason. It's fine if they want to extort students, but there should be a cost.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is - do US universities not have libraries where you can borrow these text books?

They will generally have one on reserve that you can only check out for something like 4 hours or something. My college has used the government covid money to pay for all students' textbooks and we hope to be able to include textbooks in tuition price from now on but they are ebooks only.

Thats fucked. I only bought two text books (30eur and 40eur) for the entire time I was in collage. All else I loaned from the school library for free.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can students no longer pool their money for a loose-leaf edition and then take it down a local sketchy copy center?

Even better, download a PDF on Libgen, print it out on the school library printer or pool your money for a laser printer, and bring it down to a local coffee center for a cheap plastic binder.

Even even better, don't print it and just read it on screen or get a supernote and put all of your books on there where you can mark them up and have them all with you all of the time.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#66
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Governor's University [1] is a good deal for IT-related online degrees. They are $3920 per 6 month term, no matter how many or few classes you take that term. You can take the tests for most classes without having taken the class and get credit for passing, so if you already know a subject required for the degree would can satisfy the requirement that way. The cost of certifications that you earn along the wa…

I have a degree from an accredited online institution, and it holds literally no sway at tech companies. In fact, it’s a hindrance. I was self taught before I got the degree, and while you still won’t get past HRs screening for most interesting jobs, you will, at least, get industry props for being a “go getter”. With the degree I’ve hit more glass walls and ceiling’s because it’s not from a “good school”, and in the…

I appreciate this comment. Being an "adult student" (30s+) is a rough road and I definitely understand the attraction of self-paced online degrees. That WGU includes certifications as part of its tuition is pretty appealing too. I'm slowly trying to whittle down community college credits so I can hopefully transfer to a state school, but it often feels like a helpless situation. I'm just grateful I don't have children - work, bills, and a wife are hard enough to juggle as it is.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#67

Some mostly off-topic textbook stories: My dad used to be dept chair at the college where he worked. Because of his title, textbook publishers would send him copies of their books for consideration. He would give them to me and I would sell them on half.com. He was also able to order the answer books for my calculus textbook. I could do all the practice problems and look up the answers (not just the odd # questions w…

These remotes (iClicker) are in widespread use for large lecture hall classes at major universities. I don't know why they can't replace it with an app or something, but supposedly the point is that they work as an attendance measure because they only work when you're physically in class. They're about $30 used and there's a large supply of them because you don't use them in higher level classes. IMO not the worst sc…

There is an website (mobile-optimized to eliminate app downloads or spying): socrative.com. It does everything the iclickers used to do and more. You can, optionally, upload class rosters and make students log in, or you can use it anonymously. It’s free for small classes and $50/year flat fee (billable to the administration) for large lectures.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#68
I worked for a higher-ed startup that was heavily involved in the textbook space for a little over 5 years. There are a myriad of factors that contribute to the high price of textbooks. Some of those factors are:

• The principle / agent problem - Instructors naturally select the course materials for their own courses but typically never need to pay for their own instructor copies. In essence instructors are making decisions for which they generally bear no cost, but which do impact costs for students. Compounding this problem is that, surprisingly often, instructors did not actually know the cost of the materials they selected.

• The cost structure problem - Instructors will sometimes select a textbook to use for a course for only a year, but often they'll use a textbook for longer than a year. Using the same textbook for two to three years for a course isn't uncommon. This has implications re: how much revenue is at stake for a publisher for each textbook sale.

For example - if an instructor is teaching a particular course twice a year (once in the spring and once in the fall), and they use the same textbook for 2 years in a row, and each course has roughly 30 students - then a publisher selling an instructor on a $200 textbook has a value of:

4 courses * 30 students * $200 = $24,000

Or, roughly the cost of some cars. With this kind of revenue on the line for each sale it makes sense for publishers to develop a nation-wide, high touch, hands on, sales force. And a friendly, knowledgeable sales person can be more persuasive during the course materials selection process than a worthy (but distant) affordable textbook initiative that doesn't have an in-person advocate.

• The content discovery problem - Part of the reason why publishers resort to sales teams is because they don't really have any good alternatives. There isn't a great platform for higher ed content discovery. Instructors who want to survey what content might be available for their course have a limited amount of time to make a decision, that decision has large consequences (their entire course might have to be redone for example), and there often isn't very good info about higher ed content (what are the learning outcomes associated with this content? what is the resale value of this content for the student? what do other instructors think about this content? etc.).

• The transient pain problem - Most students complete their college education in 4 - 6 years, which means that (for most) the pain of high textbook prices is temporary. In other words - the pain is temporary for the cohort that would probably be most motivated to solve the problem.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#69
The issue with the textbook market is that the people that pick them (departments, professors) don't actually have to pay for it. If colleges were forced to subsidize even a small % of textbook costs, we'd see an order of magnitude reduction in prices.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, download a PDF on Libgen, print it out on the school library printer or pool your money for a laser printer, and bring it down to a local coffee center for a cheap plastic binder.

Even even better, don't print it and just read it on screen or get a supernote and put all of your books on there where you can mark them up and have them all with you all of the time.

I still prefer reading on dead tree material.
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