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Open Textbook Initiative

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Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#31

Post by hiptobecubic »

bachmeier wrote: post #30
somenameforme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not just the publishers. I think rackets like this work so effectively because bellies get buttered all the way down. At one class at my university (an early chem class) the author of the book was also the professor of the course. And each year it was a new version which didn't do a whole lot more than fix some typos, introduce some new ones to be fixed next year, and change (probably automatically th…

> Really nobody has any motivation whatsoever to change the system besides the student. This is not completely true. I have long avoided using any textbooks the students have to pay to access. The only exception currently is my intermediate macroeconomics class. I have not found a suitable no-cost supplement that covers all the topics of the class. My motivation is that it's easier to teach a class if you can offload…

Yeah but you care about teaching. That already makes you an outlier at a research university.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#32

Post by deckar01 »

dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

It has been getting worse recently. Publishers are encouraging institutions to adopt programs that use dark patterns to force students to *rent* ebooks for the same price as purchasing textbooks new. The default release date for telling the student what book to buy is the first day of class, but reading and homework is assigned that same day. Unless you want to go in person to a book store and wait in a long line (or rent the ebook) you are going to be a week behind schedule waiting for a used book to ship from an independent marketplace.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/11/07/inclusive-acc...

More recently I was required to purchase an ebook that included online tests and homework hosted by the publisher. There is no 3rd party marketplace for that content. There is no way to get a refund if you do not use it. Publishers are allowing professors to outsource basically all of their lesson planning and content development responsibilities and pass the cost off to students. To add insult to injury, that product is setup to allow each institution to be the sole distributor of the license to their students and charge an additional markup to mail you a physical card containing the product activation code and offer no digital delivery option.

https://www.oercommons.org/about

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#33

Post by newsclues »

deckar01 wrote: post #32
dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

It has been getting worse recently. Publishers are encouraging institutions to adopt programs that use dark patterns to force students to *rent* ebooks for the same price as purchasing textbooks new. The default release date for telling the student what book to buy is the first day of class, but reading and homework is assigned that same day. Unless you want to go in person to a book store and wait in a long line (or…

I used to work in the textbook industry.

I’m going back to school.

My networking course recently changed from CCNA to CompTIA network plus content.

I complained that I pay tuition and my coursework labs and tests for over 85% of the marks, are all done via CompTIAs cloud service. And this costs over $200.

On top of this, CompTIA charges the school thousands of dollars a year for the right to teach their content.

So I quit. If I wanted my network + cert, I’d self study and take the tests myself.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#34

Post by BeFlatXIII »

jccalhoun wrote: post #19
dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

Well good news: they don't bring out new versions as often any more for most subjects. Bad news: they are pushing hard for ebooks that are drm'ed to hell so you can't resell them. And if they do still have paper books, increasingly they are moving to "loose leaf" editions which are "cheaper" because they are just loose pages which means they are much more likely get damaged so you can't resell those either. Or if the…

Can students no longer pool their money for a loose-leaf edition and then take it down a local sketchy copy center?

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#35

Post by vmilner »

eternauta3k wrote: post #4

As someone who's never studied real math (only Physics math), I found the book "Abstract Algebra: Theory and Applications" extremely interesting, in part because it leads you to understand asymmetric cryptography and error-correcting codes. Also the SAGE exercises are neat. http://abstract.ups.edu/aata/aata-toc.html

Error correction fans will enjoy this talk:

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/error-control

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#36

Post by jcranberry »

dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

I think it's more secondary school textbooks which are the racket, as schools buy up the new versions of the textbooks when they come out without care for the prices. It depends on the course and subject but I find that professors often recommend books which aren't so difficult to get cheaply or second hand.

I think high prices for textbooks are fair (although compared to the field Pearson et al seem to have extortionate prices), they contain high-value knowledge. I think it's more ridiculous that universities don't provide students with textbook copies, given the incredible cost of degrees.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#37

Post by deckar01 »

newsclues wrote: post #33
deckar01 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been getting worse recently. Publishers are encouraging institutions to adopt programs that use dark patterns to force students to *rent* ebooks for the same price as purchasing textbooks new. The default release date for telling the student what book to buy is the first day of class, but reading and homework is assigned that same day. Unless you want to go in person to a book store and wait in a long line (or…

I used to work in the textbook industry. I’m going back to school. My networking course recently changed from CCNA to CompTIA network plus content. I complained that I pay tuition and my coursework labs and tests for over 85% of the marks, are all done via CompTIAs cloud service. And this costs over $200. On top of this, CompTIA charges the school thousands of dollars a year for the right to teach their content. So I…

My last internship was working on a textbook publishing tool. The whole reason I took the job is that it allowed authors and small teams to create beautiful books, publish them independently, and push updates rather than sell new editions. It did not take long for the big publishers that were partnered to cut off independent publisher access and continue rereleasing small revisions as new editions that had to be purchased at full price. * Some speculation, but this was the optics.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#38

Post by taubek »

dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

Same thing is happening in my country. Is starts at primary school level. We used to have separated text and exercise books. Now the have up to three books for same math class and they have to write in at least in two of them.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#39

Post by nerdponx »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #34
jccalhoun wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well good news: they don't bring out new versions as often any more for most subjects. Bad news: they are pushing hard for ebooks that are drm'ed to hell so you can't resell them. And if they do still have paper books, increasingly they are moving to "loose leaf" editions which are "cheaper" because they are just loose pages which means they are much more likely get damaged so you can't resell those either. Or if the…

Can students no longer pool their money for a loose-leaf edition and then take it down a local sketchy copy center?

Even better, download a PDF on Libgen, print it out on the school library printer or pool your money for a laser printer, and bring it down to a local coffee center for a cheap plastic binder.

Re: Open Textbook Initiative

#40

Post by VikingCoder »

dzdt wrote: post #5

College level textbooks in USA are a total racket. The major textbooks come out with a new revision roughly annually, where the material is reorganized enough to change section and exercise numbers. The purpose is to destroy the used textbook market, as assigned reading and homework will not correspond to older revisions of the book. Then students are forced to buy new books and the publishers can make big profits.

When I was a kid, watching a movie on TV, it would pop up and say, "This movie has been edited for time, and for content, and to fit this screen," or whatever, and my dad would always jokingly mutter, "BASTARDS!"

So, my mom is in grad school, and in the second quarter of a class, and the professor announces, "I'm sorry, but there's a new version of the textbook, so you'll need to buy it," and my mom, without thinking at all, muttered, "BASTARDS!"

Everyone turned in shock to stare at my mom.

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