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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#231

Post by vmception »

asdff wrote: post #222
vmception wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were writing this in 2019 I would agree with you. This perception is just already 3 years old now and so that social network has already gotten its additional audiences and many of those high schoolers (and their influencers) have grown up. There is a similarity of looking at Facebook in 2005 and looking at Facebook in 2008, and add in a much faster adoption cycle and infrastructure.

OTOH what happens to companies with teen users who grow up is that they lose their userbase and they die out along with other big influences of that current generation. You just don't have the time to stare at ticktock for 3 hours at 25 years old that you had at 15 years old, whether you are at the top or the bottom of the economic ladder. We see that trend in every social network.

In one large segment it has turned into a streaming platform like twitch, as in a side screen and additional chat people keep up while also streaming on twitch

I dont see a vine-like fate for tiktok

Bytedance is so much better positioned as well and already monetizing it

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#232

Post by rtsil »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #215
rtsil wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not Western Europe.

I mean it's simply not true, ask any non-European person who has lived on both continents where he feels more welcome. On what social issues are excatly Euros more left wing compared to Americans?

Universal healthcare, unemployment benefits, workers' rights, LGBTQ rights, prison policy, police behavior and control, social safety net, lack of religion in politics, free or extremely cheap education including higher education, and that's just off the top if my mind?

> ask any non-European person who has lived on both continents where he feels more welcome.

I gladly concede this, but this is just one element of social issues.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#233

Post by asdff »

adlorger wrote: post #127
classified wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Behavioral data. If you know how to analyze it, it will give you the ability to predict and manipulate.

1. Having Data 2. Using it to Predict 3. Using it to Manipulate There are major, major leaps from collection to then even having effective prediction models. Prediction is hard, especially when it comes to longer term behaviors. Manipulation is extremely hard especially when the content space is so crowded. My fear of TikTok is far more mundane. It just dulls us into the most passive form of entertainment the world h…

>My fear of TikTok is far more mundane. It just dulls us into the most passive form of entertainment the world has ever known making us a basically disengaged, lifeless people. Its the modal opposite in life to 'touching grass'.

Nail on the head. When I was first sent a link to a tik tok post, it was jarring, because as soon as that video ended another random video popped up and started playing full volume. It's a constant never ending stream of content. As long as you are looking at the app, there is not one moment where your attention isn't captured. You have no time for independent thoughts. How do you even think in long form topics when you interject your attention span with these videos constantly?

I think there will be a time when there is a mountain of research showing how harmful this 'fast food content' type of platform can be for mental health, and we really do consider platforms like ticktok or other attention demanding patterns like autoplaying instagram stories or a constant stream of youtube videos like we consider smoking tobacco today. People really need to be meditating and thinking freely, but it seems the technologists have decided monetizing (or at least convincing investors you are monetizing) all available time for independent thought is too profitable.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#234

Post by friedman23 »

bduerst wrote: post #206
selfportrait wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t refute anything you say, but linking to a page that features Glenn Beck, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson doesn’t help your case. Not to mention the clear partisanship and call for donation to the “American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology” - a rabbit hole I’m happy to avoid.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that

1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust.

2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government.

The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#235

Post by natvert »

robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

I agree with your assessment, however I don't think the response is more surveillance. If recent data breeches have taught us anything it is that data aggregation (necessary for surveillance) is just another source of Chinese intelligence.

The solution to this (and other problems of social engineering) is to educate the general (democratic) population, so they are aware of and resilient against such attacks. I don't think it's possible to stop everyone from using a given service, but if every user understands the real tradeoffs, then we have a chance. If individuals (and more importantly voters) cannot think and reason for themself, given the facts of a given subject, democracy has no future.

In general though, I think people are smart. They make decisions and tradeoffs with the information they have. The problem here is that they don't understand the real risks. More than the loss of privacy and security, the real problem here is that a hostile nation state seeks to influence the thoughts of free citizens of other (democratic) countries. This is how wars are won and lost -- in the hearts and minds of the people. If everyone who used TikTok saw the situation in a similar light, I doubt it would have the adoption it currently has.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#236

Post by colinmhayes »

varispeed wrote: post #148
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok should be banned in the US. China banned all of our homegrown social networks, its pretty standard international precedent to ban theirs, given the security risks.

Not only that. You can't operate an online store in China, but Chinese sellers can sell good to Europe or the US. It's baffling why this lack of reciprocity is allowed.

People like having access to cheap goods.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#237

Post by pessimizer »

reilly3000 wrote: post #116

I think there is a case for a mandatory warning label, like on the app store and 5 sec interstitial that says: “ Warning: this application sends your behavior to a foreign party. It may be stored indefinitely and used for personal retribution, social scoring, and manipulation of your political views. Proceed with caution”. If that seems extreme, an outright ban of the app is worse. The US and others have had a good h…

Why should domestic parties get a bye here?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#238

Post by vineyardmike »

bduerst wrote: post #206
selfportrait wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t refute anything you say, but linking to a page that features Glenn Beck, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson doesn’t help your case. Not to mention the clear partisanship and call for donation to the “American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology” - a rabbit hole I’m happy to avoid.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

> Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data.

Considering that there are TikTok employees in china - both engineers and moderators, there is no chance that china doesn't influence TikTok. Even Zoom which is a clearly american company that has chinese employees wasn't immune to chinese influence.

source: i personally know a tiktok employee in china.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#239

Post by chrischen »

friedman23 wrote: post #234
bduerst wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the whole, "TikTok spies for China" meme also politically motivated, per the last Republican president? I don't doubt that Bytedance shares Chinese TouTiao user data with the Chinese government, akin to how Apple does it with iCloud, but Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Even when there was an executive order to ban TikTok for being a national security th…

Explicit evidence of Tiktok sharing information with the Chinese government is not needed because there is already sufficient evidence that 1. The Chinese government does not deserve our trust. 2. All Chinese businesses are extensions of the Chinese government. The default assumption should be that your information is being sent to China and that China is using Tiktok as an extention of their propaganda arm.

Technically all businesses with a large interest inside X jurisdiction will have leverage against it in some way. For example Microsoft had to hand over its Windows source code to China. By extension of that leverage you can assume that jurisdiction has some control over it. In US it could be national security letters issued to TikTok. In China it could be their equivalent issued to someone physically on their soil.
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