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Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

nature.com

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Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#61

Post by Scoundreller »

the-dude wrote: post #55
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could quite easily triple our food production if only those limits were lifted. We don't actually even need to triple the production - depending on the country and crop, anything from 1/3rd to over 60% of production (!!!) is wasted [1]. This insanity has got to stop, and a lot of that waste in Western countries is caused by consumers wanting a 24/7-available selection of all kind of products in their nearest sup…

We are producing food to burn it ( Bio ethanol )

Something like 3/4 of US corn production goes to ethanol (mainly for gas, people don’t drink that much) and feed.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#62

Post by mschuster91 »

jcranberry wrote: post #50
mschuster91 wrote: post #15

> That’s in part because urine is rich in nutrients that, instead of polluting water bodies, could go towards fertilizing crops or feed into industrial processes. Huh? We're already producing way too much fertilizer from farm animals, which leads to the situation that countries like the Netherlands [1] and Germany [2] experience a massive oversupply of dung that has to be shipped sometimes hundreds of kilometers beca…

Finish reading the article. >According to Simha’s estimates, humans produce enough urine to replace about one-quarter of current nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers worldwide; it also contains potassium and many micronutrients (see ‘What’s in urine’). On top of that, not flushing urine down the drain could save vast amounts of water and reduce some of the strain on ageing and overloaded sewer systems. >In a study[1]…

> to replace synthetic fertilizers

That synthetic is the key. Replacing it makes sense - but why replace current wastewater systems at an enormous price tag with "tech magic" when we could simply use existing supplies of animal dung?

> and reduce some of the strain on ageing and overloaded sewer systems.

ETA: Actually, sewer systems are more strained by not enough wastewater flowing through them - they were designed to the load of many decades ago, prior to the invention of water-saving toilets, showers and other appliances. Now, there is not enough water let in, and the sewage doesn't get swept away - the result is smelly [1].

[1]: https://taz.de/Wasserverbrauch-in-Deutschland/!5032936/

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#63

Post by Scoundreller »

ciconia wrote: post #30

Drying urine, transporting it, this is extremely energy intensive. There's a much simpler solution: composting toilets. Easy to setup, requires very little input (basically just some dry material like wood shavings (i.e. waste from wood processing that you can sometimes get for free) and you're done. The "humanure" mixed with the dry material goes in a compost bin, sits there for two years, then can be applied to the…

Composting toilets usually divert the urine and drain it separately (gray water? Garden?) because it makes the rest too wet for good aeration and decomposition.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#64

Post by mschuster91 »

the-dude wrote: post #55
mschuster91 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could quite easily triple our food production if only those limits were lifted. We don't actually even need to triple the production - depending on the country and crop, anything from 1/3rd to over 60% of production (!!!) is wasted [1]. This insanity has got to stop, and a lot of that waste in Western countries is caused by consumers wanting a 24/7-available selection of all kind of products in their nearest sup…

We are producing food to burn it ( Bio ethanol )

Yeah but that's not counted in "waste" statistics.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#65

Post by jimkri »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #6

Jokes aside, last year an algae bloom in Tampa bay killed mega-tons of sea life, dolphins, sea turtles, Goliath groupers, and all. And the neurotoxin that does the damage also harms people! For a little perspective, Tampa bay still hasn't recovered from the last red tide event in 2017 which is evident by the specific fishing regulations implemented for the area.

I found a study recently that points to the Mississippi river as one of the main contributors to the red tide. The extra nutrients that are coming down the river and going into the gulf is the problem.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#66

Post by p1mrx »

Scoundreller wrote: post #56
fortran77 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the US -- 66% over eat. Eat less, poop less.

It’s not just a US problem. Obesity is going up everywhere. Even in pets.

Let's stop putting sugar in water; that should solve most of the problem.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#67

Post by mschuster91 »

p1mrx wrote: post #66
Scoundreller wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just a US problem. Obesity is going up everywhere. Even in pets.

Let's stop putting sugar in water; that should solve most of the problem.

The "sugar in water" is not a problem, rather a symptom: it is a very effective and cheap way to get calories into a human.

Way too many people lack a combination of access to fresh groceries (they live in "food deserts" [1]), enough money to afford these groceries [2], enough time to cook healthy food [3], or skills to cook food [4] - and most often these issues collide in poor and otherwise disadvantaged people... which again are at the highest risk of malnutrition, obesity and associated other health problems.

The thing to tackle is poverty because it sits at the root of all of these issues, not making sugary drinks more expensive - all this does is punish the poor people yet again for being poor!

[1]: https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts

[2]: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/

[3]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-multiple-jobs...

[4]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cooking-survey_n_955600

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#69

Post by pvaldes »

the-dude wrote: post #57
contravariant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably worth pointing out that the component that's overabundant in the Netherlands (nitrogen) is only part of what can be recovered from urine. In particular there's a chronic lack of phosphorus.

It is not overabundant, just abundant. We do have an overabundance of Natura 2000 lots.

If what you are proposing is to dump it in the natural areas, this is not a valid idea.

Not all ecosystems admit an excess of nitrogen. Many rare species of wildflowers would be quickly replaced by nettles, elder and other common species and vanish.

Re: Separating urine from sewage could mitigate some environmental problems

#70

Post by openknot »

dumbfounder wrote: post #32
hiptobecubic wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also stop producing so much dung...

You jest, but I have thought about this. If we all take fiber pills and probiotics will that reduce waste, and also toilet paper consumption? Should we be introducing these things into the water supply like fluoride? (the answer is no, but would be an interesting exercise to see what impact it could have)

>If we all take fiber pills and probiotics will that reduce waste, and also toilet paper consumption?

The problems I see are unintended consequences [0] of the policy. Perverse results could include additional environmental costs to producing and delivering fiber pills and probiotics (there would still be costs if added to the water). Unexpected drawbacks could include side effects from the fiber and probiotics delivered in this way (especially for people with unusual gut microbiomes, or defects in the production of fiber and probiotic supplements), and civil unrest from people who oppose the mandatory additions to the tap water (which may ultimately result in changes in the nation's political power).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequences

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