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KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

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Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#111
post #5

I must be one of the very few "hackerish" minded people that does not really get the appeal of tiling window managers. Even in the early days of Linux I meticulously arranged my overlapping windows in my X11R5 window manager. For example, there are some terminal windows or similar with running logs (or chats) at some of the edges, partially obscured by other windows who make better use of the space they cover. But th…

I must be one of the few that doesn't favor tiling as well. Kinda. My setup is unusual. Allow me two paragraphs to describe it and then why tiling wouldn't work for me.

I usually have 3 windows open at a given time, either a terminal/IM/notes program at the bottom right corner, vlc/deadbeef/copyq/scrcpy at the top right corner, and everything else is the main program I'm working with (2/3rds of the screen width, 100% of height, so stuff like Firefox, Krusader, vscode, Godot, Blender/Krita/GIMP/Inkscape, Audacity, qemu/Virtualbox, etc). I use 3 hotkeys to put a window into one of those 3 spots, via wmctrl, everything else is floating. If things get messy (like if I need a few virtual machines and seeing their contents all at once) I use virtual desktops. I also assigned hotkeys that either open or focus specific programs (like meta+X to focus Konsole or launch it if it doesn't exist, meta+E for Krusader...) so I can quickly switch to them even if they are at the bottom of the stack or aren't opened yet. Got all sorts of custom launchers, clipboard processing and a lot more functions available to key combinations I can do with my left hand only (it's the "alt+tab" hand so I extended it to all important shortcuts). The layout is a standard Windows style bottom panel (Used to have an Unity-style left sidebar but that gave me whiplash when using other computers) full of info/alert plasmoids, including custom ones. All support scripts are fairly universal and mostly work in other desktops, but KDE has nice configuration options to automate window settings, so it works better with it. Also got custom themes but I have no idea how to port them out of KDE. So KDE it is.

Anyway with the description out of the way, tiling might work fine if all you work with is terminals, a browser and other text sources, but for that I'd rather just have tmux managing the important stuff and extra Konsole tabs for the minor operations (or to passively display output of updates in a new self-destructing tab so it gets rid of itself if I forget to close after seeing the output). Because I work with many visual tools that need plenty of space (and don't like sudden resizing) the tiling workflow just can't work for me, anyway. I can see why some would prefer it, though. As I said my use case is unusual. (Yeah I know artists would rather use Windows or Macs but my job requires Linux. My creative things are a hobby, but I wanted to have my cake and eat it. KDE has enough flexibility to let me hack it into submission, so it's not bad at all.)

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#112
post #29

Happy to see mention of PaperWM in the post. I'm not on Linux at the moment, but the number 1 thing I miss is PaperWM. Nothing else makes as much sense to me, including tiling window managers

I can't imagine using anything else anymore.

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#113
post #5

I must be one of the very few "hackerish" minded people that does not really get the appeal of tiling window managers. Even in the early days of Linux I meticulously arranged my overlapping windows in my X11R5 window manager. For example, there are some terminal windows or similar with running logs (or chats) at some of the edges, partially obscured by other windows who make better use of the space they cover. But th…

I think my ideal WM would me split the screen up regions, then I populate the regions with a bunch of apps. Where as in tiling WMs all your windows need to be visible.

I think herbsluftwm[0] fits better to this description than the other tiling wms, with its frame and virtual monitor features. [0]https://herbstluftwm.org/

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#114
post #7
post #5

I must be one of the very few "hackerish" minded people that does not really get the appeal of tiling window managers. Even in the early days of Linux I meticulously arranged my overlapping windows in my X11R5 window manager. For example, there are some terminal windows or similar with running logs (or chats) at some of the edges, partially obscured by other windows who make better use of the space they cover. But th…

I'm the same way. I've tried the various tiling WMs over the years. To me the ideal is just letting me manage the windows myself, and then if you give me some keybindings to snap a window into a certain half or quadrant of the screen then life is real good.

I didn't use any tiling window manager so I don't really know what I'm missing. But I've come up with a system based on my own needs.

I use Hammerspoon (https://www.hammerspoon.org/) and a few little Lua methods to do the following and it works perfectly:

- Resize windows

- Position windows around the screen

- Instantly jump between apps I frequently use (this is especially good, for example with option+1 I can focus on the browser, with option+2 I can focus on my text editor, no more cmd+tab)

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#115
post #5

I must be one of the very few "hackerish" minded people that does not really get the appeal of tiling window managers. Even in the early days of Linux I meticulously arranged my overlapping windows in my X11R5 window manager. For example, there are some terminal windows or similar with running logs (or chats) at some of the edges, partially obscured by other windows who make better use of the space they cover. But th…

Everything you're describing in this reply just exhausts the hell out of my brain. You're describing an incredibly large amount of cognitive load you hold in your head all the time about where things are and what they mean and how much of them are visible. Tiling WM are largely about just not thinking that much about windows at all. They're visible or they're not, they occupy precise areas on your screen, and moving…

I don't see the cognitive load you are talking about.

It's just windows. You put roughly where you want them when you need them to have what you want visible. They stack. If one is out of your sight and you need it, you use the list or expose to find it and move it where it will be useful. It's like manipulating documents in the physical world except it's always easy to find a window in your stack of windows. It's a very natural flow.

Tiling is the solution imposing an unnatural cognitive burden on the user. With tiling you need to constantly think about exactly what you want to see, where you want your windows and you constantly need to fiddle with the arrangements and spend time preemptively positioning your windows. It gets very annoying to me as soon as I want more than one full screen window.

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#116
post #89

KDE is fantastic. But there are two things that irks me: - how can I see that a screen/dialog is active? It is with the default theme extremely hard to see - why is drag handle area impossibly small? When I need to manually resize a window (or column) I need to have the mouse pointer on the specific pixel of the window border, or else I wouldn't get the resize pointer

Holding ALT + right mouse button can be used to resize windows easily. (Left for moving them)

Works in XFCE too

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#117
PaperWM is the simplest and the best tiling manager I have used. Never needed to split windows horizontally, and whole idea of PaperWM is to arrange windows side by side.

I have used i3 before, but setup and configuration was painful, and some applications had problems, like ex. KeePassXC was showing with very small font etc. PaperWP is Gnome based, so I never had any problem with any Ubuntu application.

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#118
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only person left who still uses Expose? I feel like Apple is going to kill it off, they already rolled it into "Mission Control" and removed all the keybindings.

I use it constantly, but usually via the trackpad. I hadn’t actually noticed any key binding changes!

I concur to whole this thread. Have no need for tiling VM especially on macOS. With trackpad gestures I can manage all windows quickly and conveniently (and to be fair I did not know about keyboard shortcuts).

Though I use spectacle.app for those rare occasions when I want to snap a window to the left or right.

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all I need. I use an app on macOS called sizeup that let's me do this. I can center a window for reading text on my larger display. Fullscreen a window without using the actual native full screen on macOS. Snap left, snap right, up down etc. It can also keep track of hardware profiles, so windows will restore to their bigger sizes and positions when I plug my laptop into a display. https://s3.whalesalad.com/i…

Am I the only person left who still uses Expose? I feel like Apple is going to kill it off, they already rolled it into "Mission Control" and removed all the keybindings.

Funny, because that feature seems to be what inspired the entire Gnome 3+ desktop, and it's now wonderfully polished there.

Re: KDE: A Nice Tiling Environment and a Surprisingly Awesome DE

#120
Sure, KDE is awesome, but "Surprisingly Awesome"? The author is surprised that eg. "The shortcut settings in KDE really work and are impressive. " or "I can put [the panels] at the top of the screen, the bottom, or even the sides!"

Seriously? Isn't it weird that people can be impressed by keyboard shortcuts working or apps being able to put an icon in the system tray in the year of 2022?

Disclaimer: I have been a KDE user since the first time I managed to boot into the graphical shell on my Gentoo box back in early noughties. That's it, just a happy user.

KDE has been around for 25+ years. It has a huge community: Both a substantial amount of users and a daring team that is totally chill not only about diving head-first into colossal amount of work, but also about making substantial changes to its codebase when they think it's necessary. Just look at how much work went into migrating KDE 3 to 4 or splitting kdelibs when going 4 => 5 which is the status quo now.

It's also got a solid legal foundation[1], better than relying on just GPL. They got flak when they first decided to build on Qt, a commercial framework so they negotiated this deal with Trolltech. (EDIT: Here's the context[2]) The point is that their dedication to the community is also top notch, which seems rare in the open source world.

So I, for one, am not one bit surprised that a team this competent managed to get keyboard shortcuts to work after all. Actually, I'll go one step further and say this: If your daily driver is Linux and you are not forced to running Fluxbox/Openbox/etc. due to resource constraints, you should be running KDE, period.

What's next, we will praise Linux for doing preemptive scheduling? Come on :)

[1]: https://kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation/ [2]: http://openbooks.sourceforge.net/books/kde20devel/ch19lev1se...

PS: I see comments talking about eg. how bad the early 4.x releases were. Well, that's mainly Ubuntu's fault for shipping a barely finished tech preview in its stable channel. I, for one, don't remember having a problem switching to KDE 4.something once it was offered in the stable channel by the Gentoo KDE team.

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