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Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

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Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#31

Post by nyjah »

sidr wrote: post #29
robbedpeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters. Half the sh…

> Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? Netflix? Amazon?

I'll add ESPN plus and Fubo to the list of easy to cancel.

Fubo is my favorite because when you cancel they send an email to notify you of a "better option" - Pause the membership so that they can continue to bill in 3 months.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#32

Post by ywain »

sidr wrote: post #29
robbedpeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters. Half the sh…

> Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? Netflix? Amazon?

I recently cancelled my Netflix account.

Cancelling was easy enough. However about one week later, I got a churn email in the style of "Hey Ywain, here are 3 good reasons for you to ~~give us your money~~ subscribe again".

I was pretty sure my account was set to not receive any kind of promotional emails, so I clicked the "Unsubscribe" link. The link asks you to login, and immediately after login it redirects you to the one-click page to resume your subscription rather than the communications settings page.

Even after manually navigating to the communications settings page, I was able to verify that my account was, in fact, set to not receive any kind of emails at all from Netflix, so there's nothing more I can unsubscribe from.

Very disappointed in Netflix, and won't be resubscribing any time soon.

Re. Amazon, the process to unsubscribe from Prime is a textbook dark pattern which requires 3 or 4 clicks on pages with 3 buttons where 2 out of the 3 will stop the unsubscribe flow and the third button being of course the less obvious one.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#33

Post by Aeolun »

dylan604 wrote: post #14
MattGaiser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has worked plenty on me. Am I really going to make a phone call over $10 month? For months and months, no, I will not.

I mean, you could be lighting a cigar with that $10, so you're losing out on something. It's much more than $10/month => $120/year. It's the principle of the matter that a shitty company's best way to make money is to make it hard for the people that tried it out to leave. You are just proving their business model works. You (royal you, but you personally as well) are part of the problem.

That’s a form of victim blaming.

Companies shouldn’t do this shit, and shouldn’t legally be allowed to do this shit.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#34

Post by Aeolun »

sidr wrote: post #29
robbedpeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters. Half the sh…

> Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? Netflix? Amazon?

I recently found out that at some point after I started paying for it, Terrastruct became free for personal use.

Surprised, I went to check my subscription, and it turns out they had just stopped charging me somewhere spring of 2021… I’m still baffled by the fact that any company I was voluntarily paying would just freely stop charging me.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#35

Post by dylan604 »

Aeolun wrote: post #33
dylan604 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you could be lighting a cigar with that $10, so you're losing out on something. It's much more than $10/month => $120/year. It's the principle of the matter that a shitty company's best way to make money is to make it hard for the people that tried it out to leave. You are just proving their business model works. You (royal you, but you personally as well) are part of the problem.

That’s a form of victim blaming. Companies shouldn’t do this shit, and shouldn’t legally be allowed to do this shit.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that in this case. Knowing you are getting screwed and choosing not to do anything about it seems to be a bit different than someone that is unaware or someone attempting to stop it but just can't beat the company at their game. Blaming the latter I'd agree that would fall under victim blaming, but I don't agree with that label for the former.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#36

Post by whoibrar »

veidr wrote: post #22
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite, once you make it difficult for me to cancel a service, my resolve to be rid of you increases 10 fold. It overwhelms any discomfort making a call would put me through.

I used to be like the parent poster, but yours is the position I evolved to, also. And, I make sure to leave a negative review or call attention to the shittiness of the company involved somehow, much as the OP as done. It is annoying, and possibly not the most effective use of my time, but I have come to see it as a kind of civic responsibility.

This is the right approach! If everyone decides to stay silent it will only make more companies adopt this.

The shit needs to be called out!

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#37

Post by sk0g »

sidr wrote: post #29
robbedpeter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters. Half the sh…

> Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? Netflix? Amazon?

Amazon makes you jump through something like 5-10 app pages to cancel Prime. Almost felt like breaking up with a particularly desperate partner.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#38

Post by oefrha »

Cancellation dark patterns are endemic at this point. Case in point: I recently cancelled Dropbox Pro subscription. I didn’t record the entire process so what follows is my rough impression. I had to go through screens after screens of urging me not to leave. On the penultimate screen, at a glance I had no idea if I have successfully cancelled, there were something like two big primary buttons luring me back, I had to read very carefully before I noticed a secondary or unstyled button tucked in a corner that’s actually the cancellation button. Honestly felt like fishing out the real download link on one of those scammy file hosting sites.

Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription

#40

Post by cgriswald »

dylan604 wrote: post #35
Aeolun wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a form of victim blaming. Companies shouldn’t do this shit, and shouldn’t legally be allowed to do this shit.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that in this case. Knowing you are getting screwed and choosing not to do anything about it seems to be a bit different than someone that is unaware or someone attempting to stop it but just can't beat the company at their game. Blaming the latter I'd agree that would fall under victim blaming, but I don't agree with that label for the former.

These companies are using human psychology in immoral ways to victimize people. Whether a person fights back (which isn’t free) or not, they are already being victimized. Some of us do fight back, but not enough to cut into the profitability of these actions. To claim one of these victims is “part of the problem” because they lack the time or capacity to defend themselves is shameful; especially since making such a statement serves to normalize the companies’ immoral actions.
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