Could use a CaaS product (credit cards as a service), basically a custom card for each subscription you use, so you can cancel it... There's often legal and contractual issues with this though...
Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
21–30 of 77 posts
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
It has worked plenty on me. Am I really going to make a phone call over $10 month? For months and months, no, I will not.
I'm the opposite, once you make it difficult for me to cancel a service, my resolve to be rid of you increases 10 fold. It overwhelms any discomfort making a call would put me through.
I used to be like the parent poster, but yours is the position I evolved to, also.
And, I make sure to leave a negative review or call attention to the shittiness of the company involved somehow, much as the OP as done.
It is annoying, and possibly not the most effective use of my time, but I have come to see it as a kind of civic responsibility.
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#23These patterns may also be very nasty for the one that ends up trying to convince you to stay.
It's not unusual to have compensation for a team or a business unit based off signups. That's a ride on Easy Street when a company's surfing on a wave of marketing, word of mouth and general growth.
When maturing, that ride becomes harder. Some orgs work cancellations into a negative part of compensation, while the bonus for the initial sign-up has already been paid out to the last incumbent in the role/team, or perhaps the now business head when they did your job.
Negative compensation models. Companies that end up running such models are no longer learning organisations. I hope Udacity isn't one. If they are, just remember the person trying to persuade you to stay is not sitting in a particularly nice place
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm the opposite, once you make it difficult for me to cancel a service, my resolve to be rid of you increases 10 fold. It overwhelms any discomfort making a call would put me through.
I used to be like the parent poster, but yours is the position I evolved to, also. And, I make sure to leave a negative review or call attention to the shittiness of the company involved somehow, much as the OP as done. It is annoying, and possibly not the most effective use of my time, but I have come to see it as a kind of civic responsibility.
No post body was provided.
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#25I get a kick out of cancellation of internations social networking site cancel threats:
You still owe €32.85 for your Albatross Membership subscription. Your payment has been overdue since 05 Feb 2020 and we have sent multiple emails to notify you.
Since your Albatross Membership subscription is a legal contract, it can only be terminated by following the proper cancellation procedure. Withholding your payment for a service you subscribed to is not equivalent to cancelling your contract.
If your balance remains unpaid, we’re legally required to follow a debt collection process and additional administrative fees may apply.
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#26I get a kick out of cancellation of internations social networking site cancel threats: You still owe €32.85 for your Albatross Membership subscription. Your payment has been overdue since 05 Feb 2020 and we have sent multiple emails to notify you. Since your Albatross Membership subscription is a legal contract, it can only be terminated by following the proper cancellation procedure. Withholding your payment for a…
[deleted]
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#27Somewhat of a tangent, but I recently left a company. While working there, they automatically associate your ID so that you can dogfood the product of the org I worked for (in hindsight I should've had them use a new secondary account, oh well).
Well, it turns out for employees they have it set up to create a new monthly subscription at $0.00/mo.
When an employee leaves, they don't notify them that on the next billing period the rate will go to full cost ($19.99/mo).
A few days before that bill date, I happened to be checking my personal account since that's what I'd linked it to. Lo' and behold, I find out my subscription is being auto-renewed for that price with zero notification. I then went through the public process to cancel the thing, and it was multiple steps (I think 3 separate cancel pages and each one was set up so the cancel button is the non-primary or whatever the term is so you'll subconsciously press the opposite button).
What a pain.
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#28Management decisions like this policy are indicative of a sick company. This is your canary in a coalmine scenario. Get out before it becomes too toxic to survive.
Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters.
Half the shit being done in crypto would count as fraud if the assets weren't digital. NFT is literally pump and dump, and people are being blatant about it.
Customer retention - harassing and cajoling and exhausting people into paying more - is not standard global business practice. It won't go away unless it's made illegal.
Appealing to the people doing the dirty work is silly. They're not in it to be good nice citizens of humanity. They're peddling shinola to the great unwashed, getting their nut.
Before we fix the ones that only whine insistently when you cancel, let's get a handle on the Hotel a California, every human has an account, "you can never leave" companies.
Legislate strict privacy rights requiring ephemeral storage, continuous consent, and fast, lethal penalties. If your company can't protect customer data like its fucking Fort Knox your company has no business handling private information.
There are sufficient existing enforcement and watchdog groups, they simply need legislation and executive direction.
Refine nuanced interactions, setting limits on "retention" activities, and establish a framework of legally prohibited dark patterns by setting clear boundaries around what constitutes acceptable sales, data, and account management behavior.
Nuke offenders from orbit, as frequently and fast as possible.
Anything less and the circus will continue. Shitty little clowns will keep getting out of the car, mugging audience members, and it's just a matter of time before the lion tamer takes center ring.
It's way past time for laws that account for the fact that the world is digital. Analog metaphors don't cut it.
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#29Management decisions like this policy are indicative of a sick company. This is your canary in a coalmine scenario. Get out before it becomes too toxic to survive.
Where are the companies that don't pull this shit? It's more like a pickaxe and railcar than a canary. Most companies use dark patterns because they're profitable and not illegal. People doing profitable work get bonuses - this is what sales teams are for. People won't do ethically ugly shit unless you pay them enough commission to hide the stink, or if you're good enough at bullshitting the bullshitters. Half the sh…
> Where are the companies that don't pull this shit?
Netflix? Amazon?
Re: Tell HN: Udacity dark pattern to cancel a subscription
#30Today I tried to cancel uber pass. The instruction on their website:
To cancel your Uber Pass in your app:
1. Tap the profile icon in the bottom menu bar to access your account view.
2. Tap ""Uber Pass"" to open your Uber Pass hub.
3. In the hub, scroll down to find the 'Auto-Renew' toggle and turn it to ""off.""
But there is absolutely no "Auto-Renew" toggle in their browser dashboard or android app.
I have to remove all payment methods and see if it works.