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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#231
I think it's more like of a intelligence thing,

a lot of software houses in gaming have been working very hard to give windows a competitive advantage in terms of gaming experience

in exchange for what? they've been enriching microsoft and proudly so

thankfully someone understood that there is a system you can use for free to build cool stuff on top, that doesn't try to lock you in, doesn't exploit dominant positions to push other software on you, and doesn't come with a 5 kilometres long terms of services, I really am unable to understand why people just keep liking being microsoft's guinea pigs

Re: Thank You, Valve

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. Any time a company does something good. "Let's not kid ourselves. It's all for the money, honey!" Well yeah. That's what a company is. Companies are also people, and people make decisions, and those decisions are sometimes influenced by more than the mere bottom line. You can't read their minds, and it's the opposite of charitable to assume the worst. Fully agree about the rest though. It certainly makes b…

Agreed. Profit is fine, monopolies are not. It's not a hard line to draw.

OK, but Steam has a near-monopoly on games, Spotify has a near-monopoly on music, and both of these are working great for me as a consumer.

Netflix had a monopoly, but now not, and it's shit. I have to work out what platform a show is currently streaming on, and decide whether it's worth paying for that to see the show, and the lineups are constantly changing. Honestly, going back to piracy for video is looking good right now.

The GP's statement "piracy is a service problem" is so true. And, unfortunately, to provide the kind of service we want, that means a single platform. I'm utterly uninterested in a world where I have to remember which platform that game was on. I refuse to buy games if they require Origin (or an Xbox account, or in fact creation of an account anywhere).

I realise that at some point Steam is probably going to become evil and take advantage of its monopoly position. I hope we can persuade it to stay honest when that time draws near. I don't see any other option - I wouldn't want the government (which government? I live in Germany) controlling the platform either.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#233

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

This comment deserves a much more detailed response than I'm able to give at the moment, but I can give some very brief thoughts:

Let me say that I have been working in AAA online game development for more than 7 years now;

I have worked on games that had 10's of millions of players, and these were full fat $60 AAA games.

Cheating was the second[0] biggest issue of our games, it sucked the entire enjoyment out- getting ganked by a bunch of players shooting through walls is not fun.

Why did we "allow" cheating?: Well, we never did, we used some of the best anti-cheat software we could afford, but it was still possible to cheat.

"Don't trust the client" is a common response, but being fully synchronised to the server has drawbacks too; servers typically "tick" at about 10-20fps, theres a lot of tricks we pull off to make it seem as if it's going the 144-240Hz of your monitor, like showing hitmarkers (but not damage numbers) to make it feel as if it's fast, if your movements were synced to the server you would feel as though you were walking through water, as the movement would be very slow as it needs to do a 150ms round trip to sync a step.

The truth of it is if we fully synchronised every action to the server: not only would it feel abhorrently slow; it would require a full 3d rendered simulation of the game world, we'd be able to run maybe 3-4 users on 40 core machines with 256G of ram... that's not feasible.

"Don't make online games" is another common response to hearing the realities and difficulties of making these kinds of games.

But I'd suggest, if that's your response; even if we made them that doesn't mean you have to install them.

We're both making a decision here: We decided to make an online game because it can be a lot of fun, you decided to install an online game because it can be a lot of fun.

Cheaters want to ruin that fun, we have woefully few tools to prevent that.

(by the by: I'm not in favour of kernel level anti-cheat, but fuck are cheaters the bane of my existence).

[0]: Biggest issue was actually bugs, but when we fixed bugs, cheaters were the next primary complaint.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#234

Claiming will be the year of the Linux desktop has become a running joke among me and my friends. So I wouldn't make such bold claims. But other than that I am completely on board with what the author is saying. I come from the same background. Until just a couple years ago I had a Windows PC solely for gaming. Now I can't remember when I last booted Windows on it. Another weird side effect of this gaming revolution…

For me every year is year of the Linux desktop.

How much progress it has made, is astonishing

Also regarding Wayland, yeah, same. Then again, Wayland is pretty young, so I would say, give it 2-3 more years? Until then, X11. And there is many cute WMs on X11, but not wayland, soooo... I am stuck myself in X11 :D Alongside that, there is Pipewire. Yeah, right... Its quite impressive. It also fixed all my.. quirks/issues I had with Linux audio

Anyway, every year feels better, and I am happy with that.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#235
post #181

I think they started using their proton layer for dota2. I am lately experiencing lags during their heavy animations when presenting Arcana and special game modes, other than that it works fine. I have a lot of games since I buy 3 year old games for 5 dollars and most of them work fine. The newest games with special anti cheat systems probably do not work. But this is a huge step. They are ahead of the competition. I…

> I think they started using their proton layer for dota2.

Nope, DOTA 2 is a native Linux game: https://steamdb.info/app/570/config/

Re: Thank You, Valve

#236
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need thousands of dollars of hardware. You need one (1) Raspberry Pi 4, plus an HDMI capture card and a Raspberry Pi Zero to act as fake mouse/keyboard. You can totally do that for $50. (Probably less if you use an Arduino clone instead of a Raspberry Pi Zero.) Heuristic software works against the most common cheats. Standard anti-piracy tricks work against the most common cheats. Kernel-level anticheat is…

You're still talking about a bunch of work and effort. The people aimbotting in CSGO aren't doing it because they love hard work and a challenge.

The people they do buy cheats from do the work and effort. They don't seem especially bothered by kernel-level anti cheat stuff. It keeps them in business, since they get less quick home-brewed competition.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#238
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

> If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. The worst thing gaming has ever done was think it was anything like professional sports. I think that I'm in favor of cheating in games just because it rankles people who take gaming way too seriously.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion defending professional sports taking itself as seriously as it does then. From my perspective, the only thing that makes it serious is the amount of money and advertising involved.

Sure the technological barrier is important, but I fail to see how they're categorically different depending on what they require of the participants.

I don't have an issue saying they both should not be taken seriously, or that both should be taken seriously, but to draw a line between them in terms of "seriousness" I think needs elaborating to me.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#239
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

> If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. The worst thing gaming has ever done was think it was anything like professional sports. I think that I'm in favor of cheating in games just because it rankles people who take gaming way too seriously.

> people who take gaming way too seriously

Every activity has its own popularity, and number of fans of various seriousness... Cat and dog shows, caber toss, curling, singing competitions, on and on and on, the list is about infinite, since it encompasses everything within which someone could potentially be more skilled.

Singling out video games among all the other things humans do competitively feels like a personal bias.

I personally don't care about probably 99% of the 'competitions' out there, but I don't give anyone crap for being obsessed about their own thing.

(I don't play games online multiplayer style, so I'm not in the target group anyway.)

I don't think there's such a thing as "gaming", as you use the word... everyone involved does their own thing, in infinite variety as well.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#240
post #5
post #3

Considering Valve is private, it's very impressive what Gaben has accomplished (and everyone who works there).

Valve is probably only able to do all this stuff BECAUSE it is private. Public companies are concerned more with what pushes up numbers for 1 quarter and keeps shareholders happy than anything else.

As long as Valve remains a private company I will trust them to do a good job over pretty much every other gaming-related company. Publicly traded companies are just fundamentally unable to be anything other than pure-profit driven, while the reverse is not true for private companies. Still profit driven, but not forced to have that sole focus.
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