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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#131

Post by rafale »

dagw wrote: post #124
rafale wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The setup makes it impractical. You would need a very powerful computer to run it in real time. And it won't tell you about what u can't see. You would need to do the same for audio and game mechanics. Check what a top player can do: https://youtu.be/8Qf5Xlty1Cg I doubt an AI will be anywhere close in the next 10 years.

The AI doesn't have to play the game, just recognise enemy players and calculate how many pixels to move the mouse so that you are aiming at their head. Even the top player you showed could probably have improved his run quite a bit if instead of having to aim he got a guaranteed headshot every time he fired his gun in the vicinity of an enemy.

You have to tune cheat tools down or your stats will get you banned. An abnormally high headshot rate is a sure way to get banned.

That's where anticheat is going imo: algorithmiclly defining what the fastest more precise human should be capable of. Anything beyond that is "cheating".

Re: Thank You, Valve

#132

Post by Chris2048 »

donatj wrote: post #85

I hope Valve brings something like they have done for Linux to macOS. I opened Steam the other day, and by default it’s filtered to only show the games my system can play. I was curious how many games I’d lost to Apple dropping support for 32 bit, I’d never looked before. I can play 94 of my 345 Steam games. My heart literally sunk when I saw this.

But why? Shouldn't Apple be doing the work?

Re: Thank You, Valve

#133

Post by yepthatsreality »

tapoxi wrote: post #30

Is it too little, too late? Microsoft now owns a lot of the biggest game franchises through the Activision and Bethesda acquisitions, and I wouldn't be surprised if they actively block Proton support by using UWP or Windows-specific anticheat.

If you think Microsoft buying a bunch of studios will lock in gaming forever then you know nothing about the gaming or software industry.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#134

Post by busterarm »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #126
busterarm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

The average cheater is most certainly not investing in thousands of dollars of hardware to run intense AI models on a second high power machine. These are mostly theoretical hacks. The average cheater is paying $10-50 for cheat software. You may not like the anti-cheat software, but it works against the most common cheats. I think they could have an opt-out league that doesn’t require anti-cheat but remains separate.…

No, not even. Your average cheater these days are C and D tier streamers who feel a pressure to perform and have a budget. And it's far easier to do this than you think. They keep getting caught out doing this type of cheat specifically.

They're buying trained models from people who have the fancy hardware.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#135

Post by wizzwizz4 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #126
busterarm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

The average cheater is most certainly not investing in thousands of dollars of hardware to run intense AI models on a second high power machine. These are mostly theoretical hacks. The average cheater is paying $10-50 for cheat software. You may not like the anti-cheat software, but it works against the most common cheats. I think they could have an opt-out league that doesn’t require anti-cheat but remains separate.…

You don't need thousands of dollars of hardware. You need one (1) Raspberry Pi 4, plus an HDMI capture card and a Raspberry Pi Zero to act as fake mouse/keyboard. You can totally do that for $50. (Probably less if you use an Arduino clone instead of a Raspberry Pi Zero.)

Heuristic software works against the most common cheats. Standard anti-piracy tricks work against the most common cheats. Kernel-level anticheat is only useful against a very specific kind of high-end cheat, and if you're going that far, you might as well use an undefeatable hardware cheat.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#136

Post by scrollaway »

parkingrift wrote: post #125
busterarm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

This is why anti-cheat should be performance based. Build a model based on the way that verified elite players play the game, and their performance. Compare “normal” players against the model and look for outliers. Manually review accounts that look suspicious. Cheat behavior is obvious. Ridiculous long distance accuracy. Weird movement. Weird map awareness. Weird awareness of other players. Etc.

Incorrect, there’s lots of cheats that are completely seamless and just improve your performance without being a completely binary “perfect headshot” vs “always miss” or something.

I guess your last encounter with aimbots was in the early 00s…

Re: Thank You, Valve

#137

Post by realusername »

gambiting wrote: post #110
realusername wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but it should only be present for pro competitions (and by pro I really mean playing is their job).

I disagree. As someone who plays online shooters only casually once or twice a week, nothing sucks more than having a full session in Apex ruined by an obvious cheater. The fact that I don't spend 8 hours a day doing this makes it far worse for me, the time for gaming is very limited when you have a small child and having it ruined because of some script kiddies is incredibly demoralizing. Let me put it this way - I'…

A kernel anti-cheat isn't going to fix that, by far the best servers are community moderated and usually cheats aren't really complicated.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#138

Post by charcircuit »

oefrha wrote: post #59
zozbot234 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stream gaming is inherently safe from cheating too, because the game logic and rendering is not computed directly by the player so there's no way they can 'cheat' in a conventional sense.

What? You can totally build an aimbot using nothing but image recognition.

But it does eliminate whole classes of cheats like ESPs and wallhacks. It also allows for servers to trust the clients. There's no issue with letting a client determine if they've killed someone instead of needing on the server to rollback and check for kills.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#139

Post by marcosdumay »

riidom wrote: post #12

I feel like I am in a "late-game" stage of gaming. I have sort of an overview of what is going on, but a major percentage of games simply look not interesting (anymore) to me. The collection of games I end up playing is somewhere between special and weird, I'd say. And, to get back to the topic, for people in a comparable situation like me, Linux is a great alternative. So if hear or read other people comparing pros…

> I feel like I am in a "late-game" stage of gaming ... a major percentage of games simply look not interesting (anymore) to me.

I dunno. The kind of games I like (puzzle-like, simulations, calm strategy) was mainstream once. At that time, the majority of the popular games was interesting.

My tastes change in that I'm way more receptive to reaction games than I used to be. But not enough to prefer them. What places me on the same position you are on, but my actual tastes didn't change much since childhood.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#140

Post by NmAmDa »

Vermeulen wrote: post #31

As a game dev it surprises me the constant push from some Linux players to still make a native Linux version, considering how good Valve's Proton layer is. I don't think they understand that while making a new Linux build can be trivial (in Unity), dealing with all the support issues for that isn't. I don't have time to track down audio issues for some random Linux version for 0.001% of players Yet if I say I'll only…

They are small subset of players because there are no wide support for gaming on Linux. If this change by game developers then this percentage will increase dramatically.
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