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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#51

Post by selfhoster11 »

snowgrove wrote: post #19
alexb_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is a money printing machine, I don't think they have a money problem

Valve predates Steam by a number of years, and Steam wasn’t always in the dominant position it’s in now.

Yes, and now we are living in a reality where Steam has taken over ~all meaningful, non-niche digital PC games distribution. They got into a monopolistic position during a small time window of inflection where the market was transitioning from physical to digital distribution. It's meaningless to talk about the past in these circumstances, unless something truly drastic happens to open another such window to let someone displace Steam.

Heck, Microsoft followed exactly the same trajectory some years earlier, to the extent that their operating system is still synonymous with the idea of a desktop PC outside of the US (which I understand leans heavily towards the Mac, somehow). Their position is showing signs of crumbling only after multiple years of neglect and outright self-damage to their OS. The stability of a monopolist position locked in early is sometimes greatly understated.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#52

Post by danuker »

izacus wrote: post #41
Kuinox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

> Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want. The DRM anticheat drivers turn Linux PCs into a closed standard, closed OS platforms where your software kills itself (even if it's single-player) when you step out of the locked down platform. You're trying to picture a difference where there is none.

This gets me thinking. They could strike deals with AMD and Nvidia to bundle some anticheat mechanisms in their proprietary Linux drivers.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#53

Post by mensetmanusman »

Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

But it should be an option for those that wants to play knowing there are probably fewer cheaters if they opt in.

There will always be trade-offs in freedom when you try to implement rules to improve the freedom of those that want to play on a balanced playing field.

This is true in society as well.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#54

Post by Thiez »

corpdronejuly wrote: post #42
1_player wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm neutral about kernel level anticheat. I won't play any of those games, but this doesn't mean we should make porting games that make use of these technologies any harder.

What I would love to see is open source kernel level anti-cheat. The issue of course is that would reveal just how much of our data those things Hoover up.

How exactly would an open source anti-cheat do its job effectively?

Re: Thank You, Valve

#55

Post by selfhoster11 »

Ekaros wrote: post #25
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but without money They do have money. They made tons from Half-Life etc. Then they now have a huge continual income stream from Steam.

And I believe the amount the made from Half-Lifes is peanuts compared to amount they are making with TF2, CS:GO and Dota 2...

Not to mention all the fees they earn as an intermediary to buying ~every modern PC game.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#56

Post by dagw »

Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers.

Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as you're just competing in amateur races for fun then take all the steroids you want. Once you want to start competing in serious races be prepared for people demanding blood and urine samples.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#57

Post by sbarre »

izacus wrote: post #41
Kuinox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

> Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want. The DRM anticheat drivers turn Linux PCs into a closed standard, closed OS platforms where your software kills itself (even if it's single-player) when you step out of the locked down platform. You're trying to picture a difference where there is none.

There is a huge difference between one narrow-purpose component of your system being closed and a whole system being closed. Come on.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#58

Post by JamesMcMinn »

I am very excited by the Steam Deck and have paid for my place in the queue (hopefully some time this year). I am a long time desktop Linux user, however I also game and have either had to dual boot, or more recently, game inside a Windows VM because of DRM and unsupported games.

The biggest issue I can can see with the Steam Deck, or more specifically, Linux on the Steam Deck, is Microsoft's Game Pass. It simply will not work on Linux, and at the moment, I spend more time playing game via Game Pass than I do via Steam. Microsoft have a very clear direction with their recent purchases of publishers and studios, and I worry that the lack of any sort of Game Pass support (without installing Windows) will hamper the Steam Deck.

Of course, Valve are probably hoping that the Steam Deck will discourage Game Pass subscriptions since it eats into their market, but as long as Microsoft are also willing to sell games on Steam, I think having both options is the healthiest for PC gaming overall.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#59

Post by oefrha »

zozbot234 wrote: post #49
Kuinox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

Stream gaming is inherently safe from cheating too, because the game logic and rendering is not computed directly by the player so there's no way they can 'cheat' in a conventional sense.

What? You can totally build an aimbot using nothing but image recognition.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#60

Post by cinntaile »

Rooster61 wrote: post #45
Kuinox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

I have. Many times. Yes, its a bit of a bummer. No, it still doesn't justify Tencent being able to see more about what is going on in my machine better than I can. Video games are a hobby for 99% of people out there, including myself. I can do without a plaything if it means not handing over the keys of the computer I built with my own hands to nefarious actors. That is FAR AND AWAY more important to me, and I'd hope…

Why does it matter if you built the computer with your own hands? It's sad that we need invasive anticheat but if that's what it takes to get a somewhat cheater free gaming environment I am ok with that. I'll take that over ruined games by cheaters any day of the week.
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