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The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

461–470 of 520 posts

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#461
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

It makes your post come off as an ad for this foundation that 99.9% of people don’t care about and that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed; it’s as if I inserted [DRINK MORE COCA-COLA] into random parts of my comment. Yes, distracting from your main point by intentionally attracting attention to something completely unrelated is bad.

People who are looking for an excuse to give others grief for harmlessly violating social conventions probably should not be posting on a site named "Hacker News"—after all, hackers have always been weird, think of Turing. In any case they are not capable of engaging with my substantive points, should I have any, so I'm not losing anything by discomforting them.

And it's good to know who those griefers are before that becomes a life-or-death question, as it eventually was for Turing, Swartz, Assange, and so many others.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#462
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

To be consistent, you should pad the other numbers you use too. Like money amounts. And I think you should pad dates out to eight digits, just to be safe.

I think I'll also pad out your name, Nate______.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment that I fucking hate the most. You've attacked OP with a stupid, bad-faith presumption that has nothing to do with their simple and straightforward statement. In case I have to spell it out for you, yes, OP can simultaneously disagree with Feinstein and with multiple other politicians.

> OP can simultaneously disagree with Feinstein and with multiple other politicians. That's not what they said. They said Feinstein was worse.

Worse doesn't mean that everyone else is swell.

A 0. All it implies is that A<B

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of them rely on operating system providers not stealing your messages. You can compile your own operating system and control your hardware supply chain - you don't have to rely entirely on trust for those components. > Since they have to be able to display messages they are able to log them somewhere. If they're end-to-end encrypted, no, the people providing the chat application can't log anything except noise.…

>You can compile your own operating system and control your hardware supply chain It's unrealistic for everyone to audit their operating system and hardware. >If they're end-to-end encrypted, no, the people providing the chat application can't log anything except noise. Yes, they can. If you used a comprimised Element app your encrypted Matrix messages can be stolen.

You’re getting distracted by unrelated concerns. Hint: pay attention to the part where I say

> Regardless of the above, when I say 'system' I'm referring to a cryptosystem, not the other parts of the software stack.

If your cryptosystem is compromised nothing else matters. Your argument seems to be “we shouldn’t worry about secure cryptosystems because these other unrelated things could go wrong,” which I’m not interested in debating with you.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is historical precedent classifying encryption as munitions, so arguably the 2nd amendment would also apply, in addition to the 4th.

There's also historical precedent for classifying encryption software as speech (at least when printed in book form), so the 1st amendment should apply too. Then of course there are 5th amendment issues with requiring people to disclose their encryption keys. While we're at it, the 3rd amendment forbids the quartering of soldiers in homes, which, as others have pointed out, is at least analogous to requiring governme…

> While we're at it, the 3rd amendment forbids the quartering of soldiers in homes, which, as others have pointed out, is at least analogous to requiring government-approved spying software on our phones.

Very great point! Quartering soldiers involved feeding and housing them, and caring for their mounts. Requiring me to run code on my device without compensation seems to fit that bill rather nicely. Thanks for that.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment that I fucking hate the most. You've attacked OP with a stupid, bad-faith presumption that has nothing to do with their simple and straightforward statement. In case I have to spell it out for you, yes, OP can simultaneously disagree with Feinstein and with multiple other politicians.

> OP can simultaneously disagree with Feinstein and with multiple other politicians. That's not what they said. They said Feinstein was worse.

I see. So in your world, when I say that Trump was the worst president in history, that means that I "don't mind" Bush or Nixon?

Help me understand your logic here.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#467
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be consistent, you should pad the other numbers you use too. Like money amounts. And I think you should pad dates out to eight digits, just to be safe.

I think I'll also pad out your name, Nate______.

Ok that's funny. Thank you for not padding me with zeros.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#468
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia. NSW to be specific since each state had its own response. But US law affects a lot of services I use. And I wish our government had taken a light-touch approach like yours. Dare I say I wish they'd adopted a philosophy of weak governance and respecting people's rights by letting them make their own choices.

The people of Australia get to vote in 4 months for a new government. If people really hated the covid restrictions as much as you, then they will get rid of the people who implemented them.

Wellz it’s a bit more complicated than that, the upcoming election is for the feds who had not much to do with the lockdowns (which was the state govs)

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#470
post #36

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

E2EE is offered to all users, whether or not they are law-abiding. More precise is to say that E2EE is offered to users who are primarily law-abiding. Your points are well-heard, even by those in the IC. What isn't occurring, is a good-faith discussion on solving the issues faced by law enforcement and the IC related to the growing entropy of E2EE wielded at scale by folks, a large subset of whom are engaging in crim…

> What isn't occurring, is a good-faith discussion on solving the issues faced by law enforcement and the IC related to the growing entropy of E2EE wielded at scale by folks

What would a "solution" for the IC allow them to do, and what would be the limits on it? Would the IC stop asking to weaken encryption after it was granted?

"Meet us halfway" is meaningless if we don't know what halfway is or what the extent is of what you're asking for, and proponents of these bills never give an answer to that question because they don't have an answer to that question. Is "meet us halfway" on CSAM zero CSAM, because I've people advocate for that -- and if that's the position and any time that encryption gets in the way of that we need to compromise, then you are effectively asking to abolish encryption. Is it that there should never be any information that law enforcement can't access -- because if so, you're asking to ban encryption.

Others have pointed out (correctly) that law enforcement today has unprecedented tools to monitor civilians and catch criminals, everything from facial recognition (which has largely not been banned across America) to digital dragnets to public social media to cooperation with companies that hoover up tons of PII. We carry devices that allow law enforcement with a warrant to ask cell companies for the name and location of everyone inside of a radius. That is a frankly wild amount of power.

You have already been met hecking way more than halfway on the issue of privacy vs law enforcement, and it's just utterly dishonest to claim otherwise. What we're seeing is that on the one issue where law enforcement has less access than they used to have, that's suddenly an existential problem. And my takeaway from that is that what law enforcement is asking for is not to be met halfway, law enforcement is asking to weaken and disrupt literally any tool that makes their job harder in any way at all. Any technology that weakens their level of access to anything is an existential problem to them.

It is not Libertarian to ask for end to end encryption, that is a normal, moderate position for people across all political spectrums to take. The characterization of "maybe police shouldn't be able to access everything about me at time, including my location and every single one of my conversations" as a Libertarian view is just so utterly disingenuous and dishonest. So what is a halfway position where people in the government will stop calling to weaken encryption? I do not believe that position exists, and I have never heard anyone try to articulate it using measurable criteria that don't boil down to "we'll constantly balance and use the courts". I have never seen law enforcement as a unified group argue, "you know what, we have too much access here and maybe we should have less, and it's good that this technology makes our job harder." It doesn't happen.

There is not a solution to this problem that law enforcement will ever be satisfied with other than complete surveillance of everyone in the United States. And these are the people that whine that privacy advocates are "absolutists." I carry a hecking cell phone already; you have monitoring tools, stop acting like you don't. Stop pretending that an era of unprecedented surveillance at a level that has never before been seen in all of human history is actually super awful and hard for you because you can't also read every single text message I've ever sent across all of time.

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