Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inkscape 1.1.2

inkscape.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#61

Post by jcelerier »

ako wrote: post #52
agency wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 though I disagree about Gimp. Tried to use it recently too and found the UI to be as much of a mess as Inkscape. All I wanted to do with Inkscape was open an SVG and change the color of one of the paths and re-export it and I could not make heads or tails of the UI.

Would be interesting to see how your mental model of how this should work differs from the inkscape developer's mental model. I would assume there's an easy way to achieve what you wanted to do, wonder why it is so hard to discover it. Just tried it: open svg, select path, menu: object -> fill & stroke, change the color, menu: file -> save as. Done...

> menu: object -> fill & stroke,

You lose 90% of the people here. One click should make the fill color changeable, two clicks the border color, and bring up / highlight the relevant panel automatically.

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#62

Post by Drdrdrq »

ghusbands wrote: post #56
lostgame wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inkscape, GIMP, and Blender (haven’t tried since it’s 2.X release, but since this was true for decades, just roll with it) - have long had one thing in common that completely ruins any chance of seriously using the software for anything meaningful, for many; many people - and that - of course - is the UI/UX. And I will deflect immediately the ‘well if you don’t like it, contribute’ to state - I’ve actually tried, in…

> but the community was extremely hostile, [...] nobody seemed to care about [...] overhauling the UI/UX You realise that coming in new and wanting to immediately overhaul the UI/UX is not a sociable thing to do, right? In fact, people new to a project suggesting a huge overhaul is generally a red flag for their understanding of the project or their likelihood of being a good-faith contributor. I do agree that the UI…

New contributors are actually in a much better position to judge UI/UX because they are not used to all the idiosyncrasies of the software yet.

I have used Gimp regularly and still like it, but it is... different, and not in a good way.

The fiasco that is exporting / saving for example, clearly shows that core developers don't care about users much. Which is fine, but it is a shame. I have stopped recommending Gimp some time ago.

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#63

Post by Drdrdrq »

lostgame wrote: post #60
ghusbands wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the community was extremely hostile, [...] nobody seemed to care about [...] overhauling the UI/UX You realise that coming in new and wanting to immediately overhaul the UI/UX is not a sociable thing to do, right? In fact, people new to a project suggesting a huge overhaul is generally a red flag for their understanding of the project or their likelihood of being a good-faith contributor. I do agree that the UI…

>> You realise that coming in new and wanting to immediately overhaul the UI/UX is not a sociable thing to do, right? You realize it needs to be done, right? :/ You realize this attitude is likely what prevents it getting done? I’m sure I’m not the first person to go through that experience, and; again - this needs to happen in the actual build, not a fork.

Sounds like a great idea to create a UI/UX fork of Gimp, I would love to use it or even contribute. Not sure if you can build a community around it, but if you succeed, either your fork leads the way, or core Gimp ups their game - both of which are great options.

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#64

Post by ghusbands »

lostgame wrote: post #60
ghusbands wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the community was extremely hostile, [...] nobody seemed to care about [...] overhauling the UI/UX You realise that coming in new and wanting to immediately overhaul the UI/UX is not a sociable thing to do, right? In fact, people new to a project suggesting a huge overhaul is generally a red flag for their understanding of the project or their likelihood of being a good-faith contributor. I do agree that the UI…

>> You realise that coming in new and wanting to immediately overhaul the UI/UX is not a sociable thing to do, right? You realize it needs to be done, right? :/ You realize this attitude is likely what prevents it getting done? I’m sure I’m not the first person to go through that experience, and; again - this needs to happen in the actual build, not a fork.

It's not about my attitude but about yours - I'm talking about the way social structures work in most cases. If you aren't willing to prove you can cooperate with a group, why would the group be willing to cooperate with you?

Stepping in with a replace-the-whole-UI idea is generally combative in nature and may engender combative responses. Rather than being surprised at the response, maybe think about whether what you did might cause it.

By odd analogy, it's like you're starting a career as a traffic engineer and immediately demanding the road surfaces get replaced, without demonstrating an understanding of why the road surface is the way it is or why projects to replace the road surface tend to fail.

(I'm not involved with the project, so my attitude doesn't matter and you don't need to worry about what I think.)

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#65

Post by AdamBelis »

pie_py wrote: post #57

can anyone point me to a good tutorial for making inkscape plugins? or some good repos i can look at? i havent been able to find anything.

https://inkscape.org/develop/extensions/ https://gitlab.com/inkscape/extensions/-/wikis/My-First-Effe... https://inkscape.gitlab.io/extensions/documentation/index.ht... https://inkscape-extensions-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

you can also come and ask question in our officia chat https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/inkscape_extensions

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#66

Post by chrismorgan »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #51
chrismorgan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appealed to them in concrete terms at one point not long before the release of 1.0: either fix things for Windows, or keep on recommending the 0.92 series for Windows. There’s no denying that for the 1.0 release Windows was a second-class citizen. There’s no reason why they couldn’t then say: “look, 1.0 is available, and if you want the new features you can use it, but it’s considerably slower than 0.92 and the Win…

Do you think all users would agree with you? I used Inkscape on Win10 recently, and also on Kubuntu (21.04 a and 21.10, I think) and the experience was comparable. I do not like the icon themes now, they're very low contrast and difficult to decipher for me so use the old, colourful icons I'm familiar with. Apart from that and one problem with a dialog not appearing until I selected the option a second time (the XML…

Quite a few people have remarked on the performance problems. For the spacing thing, the use of Adwaita doubled the minimum width of things like the Fill & Stroke panel because of its excessive button padding, so that on my Surface Book (effectively 1500×1000) with the typical layout, I would end up with something like a 35–40% reduction in available canvas width (and maybe 10–15% for the height); but even the common resolution of 1920×1080 is going to suffer a fairly significant reduction in available width, compared to the Win32 theme.

But I couldn’t even properly switch back to the Win32 theme because of severe bugs that rendered it very problematic on all displays and basically completely unusable after a bit on any comparatively small high-DPI displays like my Surface Book’s. I don’t know if any of these issues have been fixed; I did try Inkscape 1.0 final briefly but decided it was still just too bad compared to 0.92. And now I’m back on Linux and so, like the Inkscape developers, don’t care all that much about Windows any more.

(https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inbox/-/issues/879 was my initial report, including explanation of some of the major Win32 theme regressions. Given the adjacent topic in this thread of GTK 4, the mention of overlay scrollbars in that thread points to a mess too; https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/GTK#Disable_overlay_scrollb... says: “as of GTK 4, the overlay nature of the scrollbars is part of the toolkit.” Ugh, GTK is obviously not interested in being a native look-and-feel toolkit if they deliberately remove the ability to control scrollbar overlayedness at the system level or in the theme. If you require the app to switch it on, it might as well not exist. Sounds like they’re continuing with the sabotage.)

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#67

Post by indrora »

lostgame wrote: post #49
zubspace wrote: post #38

A few days ago I tried 1.1.1 after a long absence on windows. I don't want to rain on your parade, but to be honest, it was a miserable experience. Don't get me wrong: Inkscape is huge, it's quite an achievement and I'm glad we got an open source vector app. But everything feels so strange and awkward to use. And when you get further with your project, the input lag gets out of hand. Path effects and filters are cool…

Inkscape, GIMP, and Blender (haven’t tried since it’s 2.X release, but since this was true for decades, just roll with it) - have long had one thing in common that completely ruins any chance of seriously using the software for anything meaningful, for many; many people - and that - of course - is the UI/UX. And I will deflect immediately the ‘well if you don’t like it, contribute’ to state - I’ve actually tried, in…

Inkscape has had the same basic UI for about a decade. I just upgraded this week on my machines to 1.1.2 after using 0.96 for a long while, and I felt at home still. Inkscape's UI hasn't changed much because there's really no other UI for SVG stuff. Look at Adobe Illustrator and you'll see that modulo some very small differences, there's a lot of the same UI in the same place or nearly the same place.

What has seriously improved in Inkscape over the last decade is definitely performance. Every release, I see major perf improvements.

Blender and GIMP have both had major UI overhauls, but Blender has seen the largest. in 2019, Blender threw out their old UI and built a whole fresh one for 2.80. 2.80's UI absolutely brought it up to the same par that a lot of professional tools are at now.

I will also mention that Blender is being used __In Industry__. In 2019, Ubisoft began tossing money into the funding pool & is using it internally for their animation: https://www.blender.org/press/ubisoft-joins-blender-developm... & there's a few places it's been confirmed to be in use over in the Techways course on blender: https://techways.online/courses/blender/lessons/blender-basi...

But to your point about community: Something I had to learn long ago was that all projects, open source or not, push against "Change for Change's Sake." Several attempts had been made at updating Blender's overall look and feel but with mixed reception, even from within.

The best way to get something done in any part of a well established ecosystem is to rally some friends, get a good proof of concept working, and present it. This is how three major changes in Linux have been done: Lennart Poettering, as much as you might disagree with him, stood up and said "Sound on linux sucks because you have to do a bunch of ioctl shit. Let's make a good API and a sound server to go along with it so you get all the advantages of modern audio routing". He then stood up again and said "you know what, sysV init sucks too, let's make something that handles the configuration for the vast majority of the peripherals on a system and the services that depend on those peripherals."

The fact of the matter is that most Open Source is maintained in the spare time between meetings and shifts flipping burgers:

* Lots of FOSS projects are one person maintained, in their spare time, more and more by people working dead end hourly jobs like retail. Seriously. * The big ones out of companies are probably maintained by zero people full time.

Re: Inkscape 1.1.2

#68

Post by AdamBelis »

jcelerier wrote: post #61
ako wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be interesting to see how your mental model of how this should work differs from the inkscape developer's mental model. I would assume there's an easy way to achieve what you wanted to do, wonder why it is so hard to discover it. Just tried it: open svg, select path, menu: object -> fill & stroke, change the color, menu: file -> save as. Done...

> menu: object -> fill & stroke, You lose 90% of the people here. One click should make the fill color changeable, two clicks the border color, and bring up / highlight the relevant panel automatically.

  there is  multipl ways how to skin a cat . you can single clisk to cahnge color fill. selct object an chose color from pallet down or click on  color in info bar that wil open fill and stroke panel
Post reply on HN