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The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

221–230 of 520 posts

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#221
post #75
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

The gov isnt worried about criminals or terrorists: those guys are easy to deal with. The gov is worried about organised protests, like those canadian truckers, because protesters are protected by laws. Encrypted communications is an obvious enabler of such protests.

Of course they're worried about criminals and terrorists, as well as protests; nobody wants to watch their children die in a home invasion or a burning skyscraper, not even politicians, and nobody wants habitual violent criminals to repeatedly victimize innocent people (unless they identify strongly with the criminals). Peaceful protests can be a powerful instrument for change, including taking away government power, but only when the protestors are willing to die for their cause.

Every day, police officers and prosecutors go to work and spend much of the day worrying about criminals, and a few of them are assigned to worry about terrorists too. When they go home, they have to keep worrying about criminals, too, because their job makes them tempting targets for revenge. I'm not saying people don't seek employment as police officers and prosecutors in order to have free reign for their sadistic urges --- they do --- but that's not the majority and it's never the whole story.

Terrorism can have extremely large effects, just not desirable ones. When the people think the government is doing a bad enough job of protecting them from criminals, terrorists, and protests, that government is at high risk of losing its power entirely, which is something almost nobody in the government wants.

Even anarchists often don't want it, because there's no guarantee that what replaces the government will be better. You may not like the FBI, but if the alternative is the Proud Boys, better the devil you know. Remember who won the elections after the overthrows of Mubarak, the Shah, and the Tsar.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#222
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

With the paranoidal view you're placing yourself outside the realms of sensible discussion. You can't really think that some politicians are knowingly and deliberating proposing an existential threat to "free society and democracy."

No, they're not knowingly and deliberately proposing an existential threat to "free society and democracy." That would be political suicide in the US. They're knowingly and deliberately proposing an existential threat to free society and democracy. That's not a paranoid view, just stating the obvious.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The individuals in the government are worried about all threats. Canadian truckers are certainly one of them, but not a very important one other than they gum up commerce and may eventually develop into a riot.

Criminals and terrorists don’t use public comms to communicate (at least the smart ones). They use dead drops, trusted couriers, and in-person talking. Protestors by default must communicate in the open, and to each other. They are much more disorganized.

The smart criminals and terrorists are generally the ones working for the government.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#224

We have to give them something for CSAM, or they'll keep coming at free speech in general using CSAM as cover. I strongly recommend considering the invention of a sticky, client-side program that scans all images passing through your network interfaces. It is also allowed to send red flagged images to a jury that will be a first hurdle to doing anything: determining it's really a CSAM matter. I've proposed this befor…

> I think it can be made as difficult as black box baseband firmware to undermine.

And once we've set the precedent in law that the government gets to force mandatory unauditable features onto all computing devices, what makes you think they'll stop at image scanning? You're basically saying that no Free and Open Source machine should ever be allowed on the internet again.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#225

For those living in California: https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/e-mail-me A copy of my note if you would like a template: ``` Dear Senator Feinstein, I am deeply disappointed with your support of the EARN IT act and am expressing my deep concern and disapproval of such a bill. Congruent with the recent report released by Stanford, I am expressing my deep disappointment in your sponsorship of the EAR…

So far for this type of laws she always have a canned response essentially saying "I know better than you".

Anyway I emailed her, and encourage everyone do so. Not doing anything, by assuming it is pointless is a self fulfilling prophecy.

I wish somebody younger would replace her :(

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#226
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts. The existential threat this bill poses to free society and democracy is exactly why they're supporting it. It's not some accidental side effect. They're opposed to the existence of free society and democracy because it limits government power, which…

> They want the police to have all the power they can get because, as far as they're concerned, they're the good guys, and giving the good guys more power helps them win against the bad guys. But we all know that giving excessive power to good guys turns them rather reliably into bad guys.

Its not like history tends to repeat in cycle regardless of the age and technology.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would require people willing to be single-issue voters, the way many are on abortion or firearms. Would anyone here switch party votes to a candidate who sided their way on tech privacy — even if they disagreed on other core principles like abortion, gun rights, religion in schools, etc? Maybe a few, but I'm not convinced many.

I wouldn’t. That’s the sad thing in the US with its entrenched two party system. You have to choose between two unlikeable options. I usually vote Green but it’s sad that these votes are “lost”.

The UK, with its n-party system, still manages to pass some pretty zany anti-civil-rights legislation…

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#228

Instead of just getting these shutdown how about an opposing act which puts penalties for lobbyists and politicians who back this kind of thing? I don't want to keep fighting zombie bills like these, because we will eventually miss one.

> penalties for lobbyists and politicians who back this kind of thing

You want to make it illegal for people to propose and vote for policies that you don't like? What if they beat you to it and pass a law that stops you from getting your law passed?

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#229

We have to give them something for CSAM, or they'll keep coming at free speech in general using CSAM as cover. I strongly recommend considering the invention of a sticky, client-side program that scans all images passing through your network interfaces. It is also allowed to send red flagged images to a jury that will be a first hurdle to doing anything: determining it's really a CSAM matter. I've proposed this befor…

> I think it can be made as difficult as black box baseband firmware to undermine. And once we've set the precedent in law that the government gets to force mandatory unauditable features onto all computing devices, what makes you think they'll stop at image scanning? You're basically saying that no Free and Open Source machine should ever be allowed on the internet again.

If it can't be designed properly, then I withdraw the suggestion, but I think it's possible to design something that cannot hide from you the fact of a detection and the questionable content. That is, if they don't stop at image scanning for CSAM then you'll at least know it, even if you can't stop it. Not perfect, but its something.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#230

These assholes just keep trying and trying until they get their way. At least it's good to see there's some actual pushback in the United States. Here in Australia, this sort of legislation has bipartisan support, it gets rubberstamped and passed on a Friday evening before a public holiday with the media staying silent. Keep fighting against these bills, or else you'll get a government that happily runs roughshod ove…

Yeah. Maybe there should be a law that makes it illegal to attempt to ban encryption.

But what if they make it illegal to attempt to make it illegal to attempt to ban encryption?
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