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The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

131–140 of 520 posts

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#131

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

> These people seem incapable of understanding the existential threat to free society and democracy posed by limiting everyone's ability to communicate private thoughts.

I proffer instead that this outcome isn't a side effect but their ultimate goal.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#132
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a free society and democracy before the internet.

We had a society in which all media was controlled by a handful of corporations who dictated what people saw and thought. That is not by any means a free society. Then along came Bulletin Board Systems and then the Internet, and all that changed. Legislation like the EARN IT Act is meant to turn back the clock to silence the voice of the people so that, once again, only the voice of the bourgeoisie can be heard.

I believe that the period you refer to had local newspapers, tv stations, and radio stations that were largely independent from this handful of corporations (ABC, CBS, NBC?). During this period, there was limited opportunity to perform population-wide surveillance on the discussion of this coverage. In those days your TV tended not to be equipped with technology that could report what you watched.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#133
post #8

Graham (R-SC) Blumenthal (D-CT)* Durbin (D-IL) Grassley (R-IA)* Feinstein (D-CA) Cornyn (R-TX) Whitehouse (D-RI) Hawley (R-MO) Hirono (D-HI) Kennedy (D-LA)* Casey (D-PA) Blackburn (R-TN) Masto (D-NV)* Collins (R-ME) Hassan (D-NH)* Ernst (R-IA) Warner (D-VA) Hyde-Smith (R-MI) Murkowski (R-AK)* Portman (R-OH)* * are up for re-election this year. Bit of a pain to find this information really - couldn't find a single new…

Exactly 10 on each side --- that's about as non-partisan as it gets.

Authoritarian abuse is second to war in being the most bipartisan issue.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#134
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E2EE is offered to all users, whether or not they are law-abiding. More precise is to say that E2EE is offered to users who are primarily law-abiding. Your points are well-heard, even by those in the IC. What isn't occurring, is a good-faith discussion on solving the issues faced by law enforcement and the IC related to the growing entropy of E2EE wielded at scale by folks, a large subset of whom are engaging in crim…

Law enforcement issues don't override all other concerns. If life is difficult for them, good. That's the point. It should be difficult in order to prevent abuse of power. Encryption is a perfectly reasonable reaction to governments that give themselves the right to surveil the entire planet. Nobody really cares that it makes their life harder. That's exactly what it's supposed to do. It should be incredibly hard if…

> If they want to investigate stuff, they should have to get warrants and literally send out operatives to physically compromise the targeted equipment. This puts a limit on the scale of government operations. This is how it's supposed to be.

i think that's mostly right. i also take the controversial view that consumer encryption should have a front door for law enforcement. there should be a mechanism where if they are in possession of a valid warrant, and said warrant is validated by third party watchdogs, then they can enter into decryption protocol that will immutably log that the protocol took place in a public, yet cryptographically time embargoed location.

i don't agree with the idea of mass-surveillance data mining dragnets, i think they're constitutionally problematic, but on the same token, if a valid warrant has been issued, investigators need to be able to do their jobs and we as citizens need to be able to audit that said powers are not being abused.

but i will admit, this thinking is immature. the prevalence of information systems in our lives has resulted in the most detailed and rich records of human activity that have ever existed. this is new. on the flip side, advancements in communication have enabled all sort of new paradigms in crime that weren't really possible before. i suspect that getting all of this right will be quite difficult as we don't even fully understand how much the game has changed with these new technologies pervading our lives.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#135
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telling the govt "too bad, you can't stop math" will backfire. The law can be used to force tech companies to literally stop doing math at scale. There is no practical scenario where those who want to use e2e will not have that capability. Even if technology companies are totally banned from producing it domestically, it's trivial for foreign companies to provide the e2e software and supply it over the internet.

Until that becomes illegal. After all, torrent indexes are illegal, and they aren't directly pirating anything. Thus, supporting an end around, can be attacked as well..

Torrent indexes are illegal, and yet a lot of them exist very publicly. Pushing e2e encryption into the same category as them does not seem very effective.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is it impossible for them to go back to doing things that way? Because symmetry. Criminals using e2ee are not going back. Not to support the act, but your comment doesn't really address the issue.

Why does that matter? Cops weren’t listening to those old face to face communications. That was practically impossible which is analogous to the technical impossibility of listening in on E2EE connections. Instead they were cracking cases in other ways (physical evidence, confidential sources, etc.)

To play Devil's Advocate: people had to meet up for face-to-face communications, but they don't have to meet up for remote communication.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#138

No matter your opinion on the issue, the firearm lobby would probably serve as an effective model for fighting legislation like this on a long term basis.

It would require people willing to be single-issue voters, the way many are on abortion or firearms. Would anyone here switch party votes to a candidate who sided their way on tech privacy — even if they disagreed on other core principles like abortion, gun rights, religion in schools, etc? Maybe a few, but I'm not convinced many.

I wouldn’t. That’s the sad thing in the US with its entrenched two party system. You have to choose between two unlikeable options. I usually vote Green but it’s sad that these votes are “lost”.

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#139

It seems like this Stanford page has clearly taken a side on the issue. Does anyone have a link to a solid unbiased discussion of the pros and cons of this? It's got bipartisan support, so clearly there are legitimate arguments in favor of these changes, would be interested to hear what they are.

>It's got bipartisan support, so clearly there are legitimate arguments in favor of these changes, would be interested to hear what they are.

The safety of our children™!

Re: The EARN IT act is back, and it’s more dangerous than ever

#140

While this bill is strongly opposed by the Internet Society, ACLU, CDT, and EFF, the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully. The pretext is, of course, "protect the children" and more generally law-and-order with a bonus side-helping of "stop those awful social media giants." While these justifications are (hopefully) obvious misdirection t…

> the critiques I've read don't get much into the real "why" behind this legislation continuing to be pushed so forcefully.

I think, what most people are missing, is that Democratic (the free world) governments have lost control of the narrative. It's not that there wasn't corruption before, but people trusted the government more back in the day. Before the immersion of social media, information moved slowly. There wasn't free channels to transfer information (the Media controlled what can get out) and people couldn't take high-quality photos, videos and live stream to their fellow citizens.

This changed now. This means the government and politicians can't control the narrative anymore (ie: almost all politicians are corrupt now!). This is doubly worse since young people disproportionately use social media. TV is still watched, but only by seniors. They'll be gone soon and the politicians will have to rule a ruly population.

The next decade is going to be quite challenging to Democracy, Freedom of Speech, Privacy, Freedom of Movements and all freedoms and liberties really. Many of the liberties the West population take for granted are quite expensive; you better be ready for this change.

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