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Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

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Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#321

Post by mthoms »

mrtksn wrote: post #64

Just yesterday, on a local streaming platform that has a series that I want to watch I was offered "7 days free". Great, I can watch the accumulated episodes and if I still feel like watching the new ones that come weekly I can keep the subscription, right? Nope, the "7 days free" wasn't a a trail but 7 extra days when you purchase a full year subscription. I was considering to get a monthly subscription to try it ou…

>That's one of the things that's great about Apple's iAP and Apple being the handler of transactions. There's no tricks

If you don't cancel a three day trial before the end of the second day, you are automatically billed. That's not a three day trial, that's a two day trial. A full 33% less than what you are explicitly promised[0]:

>If you signed up for a free or discounted trial subscription and you don't want to renew it, cancel it at least 24 hours before the trial ends.

>If you cancel during a free trial period, you might lose access to the subscription immediately.

(Note: Although it says you "might" lose access immediately, in my experience you always loose access immediately)

That means it's basically impossible to "trial" software for the period Apple advertises. No matter if the period is 3 days, 7 days or 3 months. It's a dark pattern, a dirty trick that is blatantly consumer hostile.

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202039

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#322

Post by imbnwa »

mrtksn wrote: post #202
nguyenkien wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He not talk about android. Why are you bring that up?

Because Android is the free alternative where we can observe how "If Apple allowed that" theories will pan out?

People really don't realize how much of a clusterfuck is prevented by Apple's platform lockdown, like, my god its another level of quality in my experience and I was an Android user for most of my life. Even those things that can be annoying to a Web Dev like Apple's control of full-screen video content is so much better than gambling on any ol' web video player's UI being non-ridiculous with hard to hit elements, etc.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#323

Post by RHSeeger »

bradleyjg wrote: post #190
tux3 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not a limited number of slots for who gets to be called evil. It's a threshold, not a competition. Sometimes the threshold changes, but crossing it is enough. No matter that other people might be even worse.

Indeed not. Contemporary society has infinite capacity for moral condemnation. Is black and white thinking considered a compliment now?

It's not black and white thinking, it's a threshold, as stated.

For an average income person

- A Porsche is expensive - A Ferrari is expensive

The fact that a Ferrari costs a lot more than a Porsche does not make a Porsche "not expensive", because there is a line (for the buyer) beyond which they consider a car expensive. There's problem a grey are below that line in which a car may cost more than they are comfortable spending, but have enough useful features that they will consider sacrificing for it. And there is a large area to the right of the expensive threshold where a lot of such cars lie.

The fact that lots of cars are past the "expensive" threshold for someone doesn't mean they're thinking in black and white.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#324

Post by unfocussed_mike »

civilized wrote: post #179
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the interests of reaching a point of agreement, I concur that they could put, in or next to that initial wording, something like "early cancellation fees may apply". But an annual plan really is that. They are telling you pretty clearly* what you're buying; the fact that there's a way to bail out half way for less is an advance on that position. * though as I said in the other reply, "yearly" would be better

These four words are clear enough to be legally defensible, but they are the absolute minimum and they are designed to be the absolute minimum. They want to maximize conversion even if it traps people who didn't understand in good faith what they were buying. It isn't hard to provide a complete explanation of what happens if you go past the trial period and want to cancel. All they have to say is, "if you don't cance…

> ... why I believe the world is run by sociopaths.

Finally a point on which we agree. On average I suspect it is.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#326

Post by Razengan »

mrtksn wrote: post #64

Just yesterday, on a local streaming platform that has a series that I want to watch I was offered "7 days free". Great, I can watch the accumulated episodes and if I still feel like watching the new ones that come weekly I can keep the subscription, right? Nope, the "7 days free" wasn't a a trail but 7 extra days when you purchase a full year subscription. I was considering to get a monthly subscription to try it ou…

> That's one of the things that's great about Apple's iAP and Apple being the handler of transactions. There's no tricks, it's standart on every app

And that is exactly what user-hostile companies and devs want to undermine.

Just look up Match.com (parent of Tinder and part of the “coalition” against Apple) and the shit they pull against people, as an example (like charging certain demographics differently for the same service and using artificial matches to bait new subscribers)

If you get screwed by such a scummy actor via Apple’s IAP, Apple will give you a refund without asking any questions, almost immediately. That’s what they want to sidestep, it was never about the users.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#328

Post by lostcolony »

chrisseaton wrote: post #299
beeboop wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use privacy.com for throw-away cards and you can set spending limits and close them at any time.

> close them at any time Closing your card doesn't have any impact on legal obligations you had, or a merchant thinks you had, or any impact on whether a merchant will choose to do business with you in the future.

In terms of legal obligations, sure - however, for SaaS, it's almost never worth it. If it's "we charge you at the start of the period", then you received no goods, they received no payment, there is no legal obligation. If it's "we provide the service and charge you at the end of the period", then there is a legal obligation, but the cost to them to collect is probably too large; they could always send it to a debt collector, but good luck proving that debt ("the issuer of the debt provided access to a service" "...that I was unaware of and never used? Sounds fraudulent").

In terms of merchant choosing to do business with you in the future, they may or may not have a choice; depends what they use to identify you with. Certainly, if they don't make canceling easy, it's probably not the kind of business you want to deal with.

All that said, this is why anything that auto-renews, that I don't know if I want to keep renewing (i.e., will I still be using it at the end of the trial period, end of the month, end of the year), I immediately cancel. If it's a trial and that terminates access, I will take that as a sign not to use them. If it's paid and that terminates access, I will also take that as a sign not to use them, but I'll also email them and basically say "hey; I paid for X period, wish to use it for X period, but am unable to use the service for X period. I either need you to reinstate my account, sans auto-renewal, or I expect a refund". That tends to get a response, since otherwise -they- are legally on the hook.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#330

Post by ketzu »

civilized wrote: post #125
CharlesW wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely insane that you think Adobe has fulfilled their obligations to communicate to the customer what they're getting into by putting "annual plan paid monthly" in a drop-down next to a button. "Annual plan, paid monthly" seems pretty clear to me too, so help me approach this with a new perspective. Is there a SaaS provider using the "annual plan, paid monthly" who does this "right"? Are you against this…

I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over. Adobe has a moral obligation to explain that up-front, so that consumers who cannot easily pay the fee are adequately warned of the danger they are getting themselves into.

> I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over.

Reading the twitter thread it seems to me that you can cancel within 14 days of subscribing without a cancelation fee. See also: https://twitter.com/darkpatterns/status/1489901691151519746

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