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Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

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Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#301

Post by unfocussed_mike »

peferron wrote: post #265
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #56

I am not quite sure why people don't grasp that it's an annual plan for really expensive software. "Annual plan, billed monthly" is about as easy as it's going to be in four words on a button or by a button. If you could rent it for just a month now and then, wouldn't you only rent it in the months you need it? They make it so you can't. There's a solution: DON'T USE IT. Ask yourself seriously: what is it you want to…

> There are all sorts of viable competitor apps > monopoly You lost me there. Are you using a different definition of monopoly than the usual one?

I am using a different definition of monopoly than the USA one.

They are a monopoly according to the EU definition (which used to be the UK definition; may still be). They control clearly more than 50% of the market; that is enough to attract regulatory scrutiny as a monopoly.

The reality is that a monopoly need not have 100% control of the market. It is more that they have control over some barrier of entry to the market. That, combined with half the market share, is a powerful tool.

In the case of Adobe, as well as market share, they also have de facto control over a set of file formats that the market depends on (the so-called 'industry standard'). And they have a level of product integration/tying in the Creative Suite that could be monopolistic. That limits the competing apps; they cannot together offer a truly competing suite.

Affinity is I think close to rolling back some of Adobe's monopoly power, because the Affinity Suite is so capable, and it might well be in Adobe's interest to allow them to do that; it certainly must help them when they talk to EU regulators.

The real question is whether they are an "abusive" monopoly. And I don't believe they are quite there yet.

There are some hints that they may risk becoming technically abusive but this "dark pattern" ain't one. One such hint is that you can't buy just the two arbitrary apps you want in the suite -- it's either one app, the photography plan, or the lot.

It is certainly the case that any further acquisitions by Adobe could attract monopoly regulation in the EU.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#302

Post by albedoa »

is_true wrote: post #88
notyourwork wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CC chargeback.

Depending on your card it could be a pain and cost you some money. Mine requires a new card if I want to do a charge back.

"My hospital staffs fake doctors." Okay! That is not normal, and in no way does it change the general recommendation.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#303

Post by taneq »

Adobe got a permaban from all of my devices the moment they slipped a bundled Norton Antivirus installer past me by hiding the checkbox to include it on the Acrobat Reader installer download page rather than in the installer itself. Adobe can fuck right off and die as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#304

Post by fblp »

I could recreate this deceptive workload on the Adobe UK site but not the Australian or US sites. It looks like they're playing fast and loose in the UK. In Australia this would be prevented by Australian consumer laws which has broad protections for behavior likely to mislead consumers (fine print, unclear total contract price etc).

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#305

Post by imwillofficial »

bradleyjg wrote: post #175
toyg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gradation of evil is still evil.

I love living in a time moral absolutism and self righteousness. Nothing better than having conversations with people that have zero doubts about the correctness of every single one of their many, many ethical positions and that anyone who disagrees is evil. Good times. If only I could have witnessed the Spanish Inquisition.

“moral absolutism”

How dare people make judgement calls on actions they feel are morally wrong! Why, that’s like burning people at the stake!

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#306

Post by SomeBoolshit »

remus wrote: post #292
sibit wrote: post #58

For anyone stuck in this dark pattern here is a trick I've used in the past: Adobe won't let you cancel without paying the remainder of your subscription fee however you can switch to a different plan. As soon as you switch you'll have the ability to cancel your "new" plan within 14 days. If you cancel after 14 days they'll charge you the early termination fee.

Or you can threaten to report them to the relevant consumer body in your country. I did this after arguing with one of their sales people about cancelling a subscription for half an hour and they immediately relented. Just speculating, but i suspect they know what they're doing is dodgy and want to avoid as much scrutiny as possible from any regulatory bodies so their support script says to cancel if the customer men…

Of course, you then report them, anyway.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#307

Post by civilized »

chrisseaton wrote: post #289
civilized wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over. Adobe has a moral obligation to explain that up-front, so that consumers who cannot easily pay the fee are adequately warned of the danger they are getting themselves into.

What does 'annual plan' mean to you? How can you misinterpret those words?

I would probably understand it, but I don't think those two words would necessarily make it clear to every person of every background, and it's very easy for Adobe to briefly explain the early termination fee on the payment page where everyone can easily see it.

They don't explain it because they want everyone to convert, even people who did not understand what they signed up for and would not have signed up if they had understood.

Subscription fee companies have always behaved like this.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#308

Post by remus »

vel0city wrote: post #279
jeroenhd wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I opened their page and the drop down was clearly labeled as an annual subscription to me. It also told me the exact date by which I should cancel not to infer any costs. The drop down offered me to pay the full year upfront, or a monthly plan which is cancellable at any time. I don't think this stuff is illegal at all. What they effectively did here is put the email address and personal information for…

The author of this tweet thread even acknowledges it states the terms in the workflow. > But what does "Annual plan, paid monthly" actually mean? I don't understand how "Annual plan, paid monthly" could be taken as something confusing or requires some additional context to make any sense out of it. How are other people reading "Annual plan, paid monthly" any other way than that it is an annual plan broken out into mo…

For me it is more that the overall presentation is not clear. That wording on it's own is clear, but at every other stage in the process the implication is that it's a month to month commitment and not a full year you're signing up for. The fact that if you cancel they take half the year of payments and then only provide you with service for the remainder of the month is another nice little "fuck you" too.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#309

Post by fermentation »

prox wrote: post #280
cpach wrote: post #68

If you’re on macOS and just want a good and convenient image editor, I warmly recommend Acorn. The Muellers (owners of Flying Meat Software) have put a lot of effort to make it feel like a really solid Mac application. The price is good and from time to time they offer discounts. The whole experience reminds me of using good old Paintshop Pro back in the late 90s (^_^) Other options are Affinity Photo from Serif Ltd…

I use Affinity Suite professionally, absolutely possible to switch. Have done for three years, it’s really good.

As soon as Affinity releases a Lightroom replacement I will buy it. I've tried using the open source apps and it just doesn't feel as good on a mac.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#310

Post by [deleted] »

claviska wrote: post #298
chrisseaton wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chargebacks aren't the magic spell people think they are. The credit card company may elect to side with the merchant, or the merchant may decline to do business with you again in the future (not ideal if your income relies on access to these tools in the future), or the merchant may take legal action against you, or the credit card company may decide to close your card account. You can't just do whatever you want an…

As a [small] SaaS owner, I immediately refund, cancel, and block the user from reactivating their account until they reach out to me. In more than 10 years, I’ve seen less than a dozen “accidental” chargebacks. Most are from users who are too lazy to login and hit the cancel button. I don’t believe in using dark patterns as a retainment strategy, so I make it very easy to cancel from the same screen they signed up on…

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