Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 592 posts

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#281

Post by unfocussed_mike »

DangitBobby wrote: post #195

This is fraud, not a dark pattern. You are intentionally making designs with the intent to deceive, knowing that if people understood the terms they would not agree. Free trial? Actually it's a minimum $150 obligation. I don't understand how companies that do this aren't being fined or having people put in jail.

No, it's a free trial, because you can cancel it. And if you look in the screenshots in the very tweets this item is about, you can see that they tell you this up front, on the third screenshot, including the date by which you can cancel to get a full refund.

It's not "fraud". Could it benefit from clearer language -- there are some small tweaks they could do.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#283

Post by vel0city »

TobTobXX wrote: post #70
av8avenger wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right here, they won't be able to charge you automatically via the credit card, but you're still legally obligated to pay for the subscription since you have agreed to the terms of service during sign up. Depending on the action that they would take, you could easily end up paying a higher amount than the original subscription price if they put additional charges on you...

The problem is only that they can throw lawyers at you. Normally a contract is invalid if one side can show to have been deceived.

How were they deceived? The workflow clearly states "Annual plan, billed monthly." This wasn't something hidden from the user.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#284

Post by chongli »

2ion wrote: post #270
bambax wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can just block the recurring payments and wait for them to come at you? Anyway a "free" trial that asks for your cc number is obviously not free. Better to stay away of those to be on the safe side.

Not a good idea if you, in the future, may actually need Adobe's services again.

At this point I intend to avoid Adobe's services for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like I need Photoshop or Illustrator I'll find an alternative. There are a lot alternatives to these, both open source and proprietary from small businesses.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#285

Post by mrtksn »

djfdat wrote: post #273
mrtksn wrote: post #64

Just yesterday, on a local streaming platform that has a series that I want to watch I was offered "7 days free". Great, I can watch the accumulated episodes and if I still feel like watching the new ones that come weekly I can keep the subscription, right? Nope, the "7 days free" wasn't a a trail but 7 extra days when you purchase a full year subscription. I was considering to get a monthly subscription to try it ou…

I agree with you on all points, I would just like to point out that Apple does not follow the same trial rules as they do for everyone else, unless something changed. When I first was trying out Apple Music with the trial period, there was a notice that access to Apple Music would end immediately. I don’t think they do this same thing if you were outside the trial period. So while I applaud Apple for standardizing th…

Yes, Apple Music or Arcade cuts access the moment you end the trial. Apple gives developers API to detect cancellations too but I'm not sure if the developers are allowed to cut access, haven't looked at it. I know some apps that do cut access though.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#286

Post by ummonk »

Spooky23 wrote: post #208
achow wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and UX.

They aren’t evil, it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years. They are brutal in the enterprise space, looking for 10-15% price escalations. They also turn over sales leadership so if you are big enough you can pull stunts for concessions. J…

"it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years."

The term for that is "evil".

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#287

Post by iso1631 »

lelandfe wrote: post #150
iso1631 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very first screenshot says "Starting At" The point where you enter your email states "Annual Plan Paid Monthly", and "Cancel before 26th Feb for a full refund" Maybe I'm just cynical, but I would expect if I were to sign up I would be on the hook for a full year unless I cancel before 26th Feb.

"I would expect" is not exactly a sterling commendation of how clear a sign up flow's terms are. The Creative Suite has a wide audience.

Maybe it's not entirely clear, but then you get several weeks to decide to cancel and pay nothing

Of all the dark patterns online, this is fairly low down the list.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#288

Post by civilized »

widerporst wrote: post #275
civilized wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't I been clear enough? If you're going to charge a giant early cancellation fee, that information should not be hidden behind a link and fine print. It should be explained on the payment page, briefly and in plain language.

I don't really get why the cancellation fee should be the issue here. When I purchase a subscription for a year, I assume that I will have to pay for the entire year. That's why it is cheaper per month than a monthly subscription. The cancellation fee might be quite high, but it is absolutely expected that there is one. And if I'm not sure if I'll keep the subscription running for an entire year, then I'll look into…

Because some people might not have the background to think exactly the way you do.

People are reporting that they were surprised by the cancellation fee. Is it reasonable to assume that these people were fully aware of what would happen? And chose this path anyway, in order to... what, exactly? It makes no sense. It's more reasonable to take what they say at face value, that they were in fact surprised and didn't understand in good faith what they signed up for.

Given that, what is so unreasonable about expecting companies to be upfront about the fee and explain it in the payment page? Why is this trivial disclosure and transparency to the consumer something to balk about?

I think the reason is pretty obvious. Companies have always loved it when confused customers have to pay money they didn't expect to pay. So the companies design their payment flows to encourage this, to the maximum extent the law allows.

It's sociopathic, and just because it's common and accepted doesn't mean I have to think it's okay.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#289

Post by chrisseaton »

civilized wrote: post #125
CharlesW wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely insane that you think Adobe has fulfilled their obligations to communicate to the customer what they're getting into by putting "annual plan paid monthly" in a drop-down next to a button. "Annual plan, paid monthly" seems pretty clear to me too, so help me approach this with a new perspective. Is there a SaaS provider using the "annual plan, paid monthly" who does this "right"? Are you against this…

I reject the idea that everyone should know from these words that they will be subject to an enormous early cancellation fee if they forget to cancel before the 7 day trial period is over. Adobe has a moral obligation to explain that up-front, so that consumers who cannot easily pay the fee are adequately warned of the danger they are getting themselves into.

What does 'annual plan' mean to you?

How can you misinterpret those words?

Post reply on HN