Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract • Hacker News Board

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#141

Post by unfocussed_mike » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

civilized wrote: post #99

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're just defending the right of a giant corporation to communicate poorly in a way that enriches them. Thanks for the downvote (I guess) but no, I'm doing no such thing. I'm explaining that the giant monopoly is going to do what the giant monopoly does. Really almost all subscriptions are like this -- they depend on you forgetting to cancel. And this one is a bit more up-front than most. > It's absolutely insane…

What a staggering battery of distortions. Company credit card? You're just assuming that everyone doing this is spending someone else's money? Everything you've written functions to blame the victim and leave Adobe harmless here.

> What a staggering battery of distortions.

I don't know who you're really angry at but it doesn't seem to be down to me. Maybe dial it back a bit.

> Company credit card? You're just assuming that everyone doing this is spending someone else's money?

The tweet talks about the the full Creative Cloud suite (something close to £750/yr), and yes, the majority of these people are either spending the company's money or that of their own freelance business. It's an eye-wateringly expensive commitment otherwise.

This kind of commitment encourages due diligence.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#142

Post by CharlesW » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #57

irrational wrote: post #23

I cancelled an adobe subscription years ago. I still get constant emails about renewing. I hate subscriptions so much. The only one we have right now is Disney+ for the kids.

I want to watch _Get Back_, but the only way to see it is to sign up for Disney+. It's not worth the agony of navigating a subscription. The US legal environment and lack of consumer protections makes it too difficult to spend money and get what you want in return. It's incredibly hard to avoid getting ripped off by technically-legal-but-predatory schemes.

> I want to watch _Get Back_, but the only way to see it is to sign up for Disney+. It's not worth the agony of navigating a subscription.

This is where the Apple ecosystem absolutely earns it's vig with a consumer-friendly, self-service, no-hassle experience. Subscribe for a month for 8 bucks and watch everything you can, then unsubscribe.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#143

Post by annoyingnoob » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

Adobe licensing practices are pure evil. I've been in IT for over 30 years. I was a fan of Adobe products for a very long time but no longer. Even the supposedly stand-alone products require a continuous connection to Adobe's cloud, which is not only a way to verify licensing but to track users.

There is a consistent pattern with companies that do advertising, they go pure evil in the name of profit. See Roku and others.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#144

Post by peeters » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #64

Just yesterday, on a local streaming platform that has a series that I want to watch I was offered "7 days free". Great, I can watch the accumulated episodes and if I still feel like watching the new ones that come weekly I can keep the subscription, right? Nope, the "7 days free" wasn't a a trail but 7 extra days when you purchase a full year subscription. I was considering to get a monthly subscription to try it ou…

There need to be laws that you cannot advertise anything as "free" or "introductory price" if it's amortized into a longer contract. A common tactic in Canada is to say "$4/mo for the first three months" but when you sign a contract for $12/mo over a year commitment. This should be treated as straight-up fraud. The price is clearly $10/mo and they're just deferring some payments.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#145

Post by lioeters » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #55

matsemann wrote: post #4

OT rant: > Ooh, I can scroll. That was not obvious at all. It is if you use a proper browser+OS combo. Why some designers thought it was a good idea to hide the scroll bar in their OS (which some browsers adopt to) is beyond me. It's also an annoyance as a user with a browser that display scrollbars. The amount of random scrollbars appearing because the devs never tested anything but Mac+Chrome is staggering.

There's a setting on MacOS: System preferences > General > Show scroll bars > Always; but neither developers nor end users seem to enable it. Plus — and this is a pet peeve of mine — there's a growing number of developers who would use the Tailwind CSS library and apply its "w-screen" class to their elements. The w-screen class sets element width to 100vw, which does not take into account the width of the vertical sc…

Found a demonstration of 100vw with vertical scrollbar. Suggested solution is to use width:100%.

https://sbx.webflow.io/100vw-scrollbars

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#146

Post by NetOpWibby » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

achow wrote: post #124

toyg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are purposefully evil but not competent enough to close all loopholes (or leaving it open on purpose to have an escape hatch for the most litigious customers).

Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and UX.

They used to be but then competitors sprang up so Adobe got less attention.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#147

Post by Nextgrid » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:46 PM UTC

kayhi wrote: post #5

How do these contracts hold up to charge backs through the credit card company?

They don't. The business model relies on most people not challenging it or not being aware that chargebacks are a thing.

Similarly, this may not fly in court either, but again the business model relies on most people not escalating all the way up (and in their case, they won't pursue it either, as they'd lose more in legal fees even if they ultimately win the case).

Nasty business models like this won't survive if people stood their ground and knew their rights better.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#148

Post by ihateolives » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #101

damontal wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if they then send you to collections? Now you’ve got bill collectors after you and your credit affected.

I can’t see Adobe going to those lengths because they’d know there is a good change they would lose any class action lawsuit that would come about. Which would not just cost them in damages but also in bad publicity plus likely get them ordered to remove the dark patterns too (thus removing any future revenue this dark otters generates). I’m not as clued up on consumer laws as I once was but I’m pretty sure in Europe…

> Which would not just cost them in damages but also in bad publicity

Unfortunately I think Adobe is beyond the point where few months of bad publicity would harm their core business. Amateurs would vote with their feet but professionals have really nowhere to go. There just are no alternatives to some of their programs.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#149

Post by hunter2_ » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

barbazoo wrote: post #45

At some point they switched from "free 7 day trial" to "if you cancel after 14 days" so I don't know what's really going on there.

I assume this means days 1-7 are completely unpaid, days 8-14 you've begun paying but without annual commitment, and after that you're both paying and annually committed.

Re: Adobe tricks users into a 12 month contract

#150

Post by lelandfe » Sat, Feb 05, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #113

lelandfe wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a user will be on the hook for $300 when cancelling a contract, that should be made quite clear. The only hint that that lays buried in the fine print is small gray text intoning "avoid a fee" that gets shown after plan selection . It's pretty clear Adobe has work to do on their sign up flow, here. That they've already done so on the US side makes it even more inexcusable, frankly.

Very first screenshot says "Starting At" The point where you enter your email states "Annual Plan Paid Monthly", and "Cancel before 26th Feb for a full refund" Maybe I'm just cynical, but I would expect if I were to sign up I would be on the hook for a full year unless I cancel before 26th Feb.

"I would expect" is not exactly a sterling commendation of how clear a sign up flow's terms are. The Creative Suite has a wide audience.