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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

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441–447 of 447 posts

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#441
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who's degree had a course in sattelite rangefinding So you are well versed in multipath reflection and why it makes unassisted GPS in urban environments with tall buildings close together almost completely unusable? > You don't need to get precision down to a lane on the road for purpose of navigation If you want to build an early 2000s Garmin competitor, sure. But people don't buy $1,500 pocket computer…

>So you are well versed in multipath reflection and why it makes unassisted GPS in urban environments with tall buildings close together almost completely unusable? Yes, a common problem even for static measurements. Yet it worked with 'dumb' gps navigations. Btw - it's not just a p roblem in urban evirorments, especially for phase measurements - you shouldn't do precise measurements near the trees. Just to illustrat…

> Sure, but it isn't a CORE REQUIREMENT for the service to function.

Again, you don't know Maps product roadmap. Google is taking its "Next Billion Users" initiative very seriously internally. They might be looking at ways to offer navigation using only a Wifi/Bluetooth chip so they can make Android devices as cheaply as possible.

There is also the possibility that GPS may not be functional in areas Google wants to serve. The US Government blacked out GPS over multiple states during a test. China has satellites that can rip other countries satellites out of the sky. Russia intentionally crashed an old weather satellite into an Iridium satellite just as a weird flex.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#442
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has a dual purpose. From your perspective, that's true. It gives a better and faster lock on location. But at the same time, it associate the WIFI with a location with the accuracy of a GPS. So when you go into your laptop which has no GPS, the WiFi which you connect now has a real location association with it. Presto. Now Google can track your real location on your laptop and any other WiFi enabled device.

> So when you go into your laptop which has no GPS, the WiFi which you connect now has a real location association with it. The phone can associate the SSID with a physical location. Maybe also a MAC address? From a web browser on the laptop, they'll have the wi-fi network's IP address. They won't be told the SSID. They'll have different pieces of information. I don't think it will help to work out your physical loca…

  Take a look at
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/dvbwr0/wifi_ssid_w...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#443
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So you are well versed in multipath reflection and why it makes unassisted GPS in urban environments with tall buildings close together almost completely unusable? Yes, a common problem even for static measurements. Yet it worked with 'dumb' gps navigations. Btw - it's not just a p roblem in urban evirorments, especially for phase measurements - you shouldn't do precise measurements near the trees. Just to illustrat…

> Sure, but it isn't a CORE REQUIREMENT for the service to function. Again, you don't know Maps product roadmap. Google is taking its "Next Billion Users" initiative very seriously internally. They might be looking at ways to offer navigation using only a Wifi/Bluetooth chip so they can make Android devices as cheaply as possible. There is also the possibility that GPS may not be functional in areas Google wants to s…

The Google product roadmap has absolutely nothing to do with whether Google maps — which we concretely know can function without network assistance — should REQUIRE said network assistance for all users at present. Yah, the results may be better with network assurance, but it should still work with out it.

This sentiment also applies to your second point — if Google wants to get some kind of navigation working without using gps in some niche market categories, that’s fine. But that shouldn’t require me, with the gps module I paid for in my expensive smartphone, to share data with Google that I don’t want them to have and they don’t technically need.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#444
post #420
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain this to me? Have people just given up?

Yes, basically. After you root the device and install things like Xposed, "safety" feature called SafetyNet will most likely start reporting to apps that your device is untrusted. Google Pay, some banking apps and similar software may stop working or complain. There are still some ways to cloak the root and let SafetyNet pass but that may easily change with a simple Google Play Services OTA upgrade or something like…

To be pedantic, if I just root a random device, but am very careful in terms of what I adjust... how does that fare?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#445
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So you are well versed in multipath reflection and why it makes unassisted GPS in urban environments with tall buildings close together almost completely unusable? Yes, a common problem even for static measurements. Yet it worked with 'dumb' gps navigations. Btw - it's not just a p roblem in urban evirorments, especially for phase measurements - you shouldn't do precise measurements near the trees. Just to illustrat…

> Sure, but it isn't a CORE REQUIREMENT for the service to function. Again, you don't know Maps product roadmap. Google is taking its "Next Billion Users" initiative very seriously internally. They might be looking at ways to offer navigation using only a Wifi/Bluetooth chip so they can make Android devices as cheaply as possible. There is also the possibility that GPS may not be functional in areas Google wants to s…

And i as an user utterly do not care about their roadmap. I care about my experience.

That still does not excuse them for requiring access to those data sources, as they can still degrade service when user does not give consent. Also there are multiple networks at the moment(USA's GPS, Russia's GLONASS, China's COMPASS/BEIDOU(forgot which was geostationary system, and which one was global),and EU's Galileo), which makes total blackout of a single area unlikely.

And quite frankly, in case of total blackout we have a bigger problems than civilian GPS navigation.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#446
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who's degree had a course in sattelite rangefinding So you are well versed in multipath reflection and why it makes unassisted GPS in urban environments with tall buildings close together almost completely unusable? > You don't need to get precision down to a lane on the road for purpose of navigation If you want to build an early 2000s Garmin competitor, sure. But people don't buy $1,500 pocket computer…

Are you saying every tomtom, garmin, etc used Bluetooth and cell services for navigation all those years? Not to be argumentative but dedicated GPS devices didn’t always have that option. Also I’m curious: it uses triangulation off cell towers to help. I don’t see how Bluetooth helps improve accuracy. Do they map WiFi spots accurately?

> Do they map WiFi spots accurately?

Yes, there are a number of companies that maintain BSSID->Lat/Long Databases. Skyhook is probably the biggest commercial one, and https://www.wigle.net/ the biggest open source one.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#447

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

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