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Please make a dumb car

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Re: Please make a dumb car

#651

Post by chakintosh »

scraptor wrote: post #645
chakintosh wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite telling the fact I needed a 3 paragraph reply from a user on HN to explain to me how to use the odometers and lights in my car. I had a Tucson before this Volvo and it was just so intuitive and easy to use. It's something that needs to be standardized, they are tools that no car would be street legal without and thus, should have identical interactions no matter the manufacturer.

I'm confident you could have found all the information contained in those paragraphs in the manual if you had read it instead of complaining on HN.

I did actually look up the manual that's in the User Guide menu in the infotainment system and there is no mention of how to operate those things ...

Re: Please make a dumb car

#652

Post by kehrin »

avidphantasm wrote: post #441

It should be illegal to make cars with high latency UIs. It routinely takes 1+ seconds for touchscreen button presses to be registered on my 2015 and 2018 Toyotas. This leads to erroneous actions being performed, which is not safe. If I were a software engineer on these teams I would quit if these systems were released on my watch.

I'm beginning to think it's on purpose. It seems impossible to me that cars can't handle PlayStation 2 levels of UI. Perhaps it's done to dissuade you from chaining together interactions. Rather, they want you to do one action, then look at the road while it's loading and then do the next action etc.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#653

Post by detaro »

kehrin wrote: post #652
avidphantasm wrote: post #441

It should be illegal to make cars with high latency UIs. It routinely takes 1+ seconds for touchscreen button presses to be registered on my 2015 and 2018 Toyotas. This leads to erroneous actions being performed, which is not safe. If I were a software engineer on these teams I would quit if these systems were released on my watch.

I'm beginning to think it's on purpose. It seems impossible to me that cars can't handle PlayStation 2 levels of UI. Perhaps it's done to dissuade you from chaining together interactions. Rather, they want you to do one action, then look at the road while it's loading and then do the next action etc.

Having worked on such software: I wish it was on purpose...

Re: Please make a dumb car

#654

Post by kehrin »

obloid wrote: post #613

My 2012 Volkswagen is getting up in years, but I love it. Manual transmission, no screens, everything is easily adjusted by the driver via tactile controls. I'm loathe to get a new car because it's nearly impossible to find a recent model car without large screens. As for electric cars forget about it. I would love a "dumb" electric car. No screens, no driver assist, no GPS navigation; just a simple vehicle with an e…

If you're in Europe, check out the VW e-UP. It's about as basic as an electric car can get these days.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#655

Post by hoseja »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #529
tablespoon wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the modern auto become "can't live withouts", e.g. bluetooth, which helps them smuggle all the other more marginally useful, security and ux intrusive features into your model. I think that implies nefariousness that probably isn't there. It's more likely a combination of: 1. Marketing/sales wanting whiz-bang features to use in their pitches. 2. Copycatting c…

It definitely fails Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." As long as you assume "stupidity" to include stupid things about the mathematics of our universe like coordination problems, design by committee, and the tragedy of the commons... There's a very slow, very week feedback loop that may be too weak at the moment to fight against this trend: the customers who…

No, sorry, corporations don't get Hanlon's Razor. One should expect malice from them until incompetence is proven.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#656

Post by lariati »

karaterobot wrote: post #402
dntrkv wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these unwanted smart features Only within the niche HN-type tech crowd. Most people outside of this group want these features, even other techies, including myself. It's the same discussion on any thread involving smart devices. People want this stuff, that's why there have been over 200M standalone smart speakers sold. As far as why these things get bundled, that’s just how auto manufacturing works. Every unique c…

The only data I have is anecdotal, but I ask people about this all the time. Some people seem to like the idea of an infotainment system, or rely on it for car trips with kids, but I have not heard any drivers who prefer touchscreens to physical controls. I know that I, personally, love having a backup camera, but don't need or a screen for anything else, and would prefer physical controls for most things. Unfortunat…

Totally agree. A backup camera actually has utility. I like the blind spot warning system quite a bit too.

Most everything else is just technological kitsch. This isn't that new though.

Stereo systems have had equalizers forever even though almost everyone is just going to make already mastered audio sound worse by filtering it. That is not the point really of an equalizer. It is just to have a series of useless controls that will never be used but looks cool when you first see it. Pure technological kitsch.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#657

Post by mzmzmzm »

I don't own a car but frequently rent them, and there's always a few wasted minutes orienting to whatever insane quirks that particular automaker crammed into the infotainment, lights, AC, radio, etc. And in these minutes if a valet is not yelling at you to start the car and get out of the parking garage already, you're at least already runnning late from the contemporary rental experience. Car UX has undeniably been getting worse.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#658

Post by zepto »

cplusplusfellow wrote: post #647
zht wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you not worried about running over small children?

Serious question. Was there some epidemic of running over children that I missed in the 18 years of operating vehicles before I got one with a backup camera?

It’s not a serious question to ask if there was an ‘epidemic’. That is clearly a straw man.

Backup cameras were mandated as a result of cases of children being run over, because mirrors are inadequate to detect their presence.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#659

Post by ctf1er »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #598
ctf1er wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a Kingslim DL12 and is powered through the cigarette lighter or directly connected.

Does this mean you have a wire hanging from your mirror at all times? Also how is the back one connected?

Yep, other guy is correct, and wires were my first concern, but they are long and you just shim them in between the panels around and down the windows. Same with the back, but there you might have to get more creative running the wire and mounting the camera depending on vehicle.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#660

Post by matt-attack »

zepto wrote: post #372
loudthing wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US in May of 2018, a federal law went into effect saying all new cars require a backup camera. This means that there needs to be an LCD screen visible to the driver for the camera. This is sort of a slippery slope as far as feature creep. Now that you have this screen, aren't drivers going to expect to see something on it 99% of the time when they aren't backing up? Actually this leads me to realize why some a…

My 2012 volvo has a reasonably large LCD that is used for the backup camera, and infotainment etc. However, I have it set to screen saver mode, and it is completely powered down until I put the car in reverse. It also wakes for certain things like displaying the temperature if I change it with the real knobs. The Speedometer and Rev counter are physical needles. Newer models have replaced these with a central LCD, wh…

My Toyota has no LCD screen visible. Instead they makes the backup camera screen behind a partially silvered section of the rear view mirror. It’s quite nice. Not as big and bright as others but gets the job done and is super discreet.
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