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Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#301

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

wakeupcall wrote: post #202
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #174

how many people here do NOT have a google account? lets do a roll call.

If you're using android, is it actually possible not to? I'm not using any google product except android at this point. I need to use a few apps that require the BS of safetynet, and when this happens you're pretty screwed. I remember some years ago I was still able to setup an android phone without a google account, but it was so _intentionally_ broken there was no point. People suggest Apple, but apple is just as b…

wait... i am using an android and i skipped google login. i use aurora store/fdroid for apps, newpipe.

why can't you sent up android without google? i am running android 11 btw,

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#302

Post by tedivm »

eganist wrote: post #279
basisword wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reason for splitting this into two separate settings is understandable. >> ...with the hope that more people will feel comfortable getting the benefits of better search in Workspace without having to opt-into search history being tracked for all Google services. This is unacceptable. People have already opted out or been opted out by their admin. If they want to opt back in now that the setting is more granular,…

> Let's be honest, the real reason for making this opt-out again is that you hope lots of people won't notice and you can start collecting their data. Please reconsider. I'm keen on seeing if there's any legal code or case law that addresses opting someone back in who's already opted out. And I'm hoping there's personal culpability for the change, too. Not just corporate fines. But this is probably just wishful think…

There really should be more personal culpability, at least on the exec team and board of directors, for things like this.

I also hope Google gets sued in Europe over this. I live in the US and work for a European company and I'm reasonably sure they're going to be super pissed off about this.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#303

Post by scbrg »

oefrha wrote: post #151
twhb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments and the email both are written like nobody really wants tracking off, at least not if they know what’s good for them. Is that what you believe?

If you’re worried about “tracking”, you probably should have moved off Google Workspace before this change. “I’ll hand all my emails and files to you in plain text, but hey, why are you storing my access patterns (and telling me about it)?” is such a weird concern.

Most people don't choose to use Google Workspace. Some organization they have a relationship with (usually their employer) chooses for them.

After that they can attempt to avoid any additional tracking on top of the necessary one that comes with the choice someone else made for them.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#304

Post by tedivm »

gobip wrote: post #213
evocatus wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for confirming that Google is no longer run by the same people I trusted (at least, somewhat more than I do now) over a decade ago. I encourage everyone to make the leap to DDG or some other search engine that doesn't just treat you as a data cow to be milked for your precious, precious "insights." Even GMail is no longer an attractive proposition - the risk of being locked out (perhaps, even automatically!) o…

What do you use in replacement for GMail?

I'm using Fastmail and have been super happy with them. I need to start looking into replacements for business suites though, since clearly Google Suites/Workspaces/Domains (whatever they're calling it this week) is making seriously unethical choices.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#305

Post by cesarb »

defanor wrote: post #282
qbasic_forever wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gmail was a way, way, way better experience than Hotmail or anything else when it started (and even almost a decade later). Maps blew everyone's mind at launch too and instantly made an entire group of direction and mapping websites irrelevant. Google Earth was magical just spending hours trotting around the globe too. Reader (RIP) was by far the best RSS reader.

> Gmail was a way, way, way better experience than Hotmail or anything else when it started I recall seeing it as sluggish and awkward when I finally decided to check it, abusing Ajax. Other web interfaces (that I tried) were more lightweight and predictable, and regular mail clients I found to be a much better UX. So I've mostly attributed Gmail popularity to Google promoting it, possibly using that invite-only poli…

Don't forget the other advantage of Gmail over other webmail hosts back then: the amount of free disk space they gave to every account was HUGE. And if you wanted regular mail clients, IIRC Gmail always allowed you to use a traditional mail client, both over IMAP and over POP3.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#306

Post by titzer »

riverguardian wrote: post #120
twhb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments and the email both are written like nobody really wants tracking off, at least not if they know what’s good for them. Is that what you believe?

I think "tracking" is a bit misleading here. It's product (search) usage activity. None of the Workspace data you provide is ever used outside of Workspace, nor is it used for any other purpose than for the benefit of you and your users (we can't create machine learning models from your data to improve the experience for other customers, for example, without your prior consent), and that data is never used for ads.

> None of the Workspace data you provide is ever used outside of Workspace, nor is it used for any other purpose than for the benefit of you and your users

Apologies, but this line is so formulaic it just triggers PTSD for me. In five quarters, management and TLs turn over and suddenly someone plugs this hose into that one, sometimes by accident, but usually deliberately. It will all end up in the giant Google smorgasbord, parts of it draped with a fig leaf that calls it "anonymous" and offered up as a data source to be raided by dozens of internal Google services to feed on.

> we can't create machine learning models from your data to improve the experience for other customers, for example, without your prior consent

Somehow "anonymized" data is constantly up for grabs, without consent required. As a PM you should have interacted with legal by now, and if it hasn't dawned on you yet, the organization will eventually do whatever it deems is not explicitly illegal or is within an acceptable envelope of risk. "Anonymized" is a particularly import legal blessing, however technically inadequate the actual process turns out to be.

You are in a particularly difficult position to be responsible for this, so I don't envy you, and don't take my comments as a personal attack. But yeah, we've heard all these lines before.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#307

Post by robrenaud »

snowwrestler wrote: post #252
Fiahil wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're getting a lot of shit from everyone who have an axe to grind against Google. They're not necessarily wrong, but I also think your mistake is not only to sneakily re-enable a previous off setting set by users, but rather your definition of "immensely useful". Yes, we do re-run prior searches, but they're not "immensely useful" because you have no feedback if we found what we were looking for or not. Usi…

How can search results within your Google Workspace be “mostly garbage?” Unless maybe your work emails and corporate documents are mostly garbage?

The search engine can be garbage. Perhaps surprisingly, Google's own internal search engine was pretty trash for many years.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#308

Post by mankyd »

matkoniecz wrote: post #232
riverguardian wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "tracking" is a bit misleading here. It's product (search) usage activity. None of the Workspace data you provide is ever used outside of Workspace, nor is it used for any other purpose than for the benefit of you and your users (we can't create machine learning models from your data to improve the experience for other customers, for example, without your prior consent), and that data is never used for ads.

> None of the Workspace data you provide is ever used outside of Workspace, nor is it used for any other purpose than for the benefit of you and your users (...) that data is never used for ads. This is a blatant lie. Google will share this data with law enforcement, also on request by evil and/or totalitarian regimes. --------- And even for use within a Google: It is as believable as FB promising to not use 2FA for…

> Google will share this data with law enforcement, also on request by evil and/or totalitarian regimes.

This is true of one's employer in general, no? "this data" is theoretically all related to one's work.*

If a gov't approached your employer and asked for whatever they have on file, they could/would be compelled to provide it.

* My spouse has done employment law in the past and likes to remind me _never_ to use work email for personal matters because the can and _will_ pull up a log of my activity should the need ever arise.

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#309

Post by tlogan »

riverguardian wrote: post #70

Hello hello, PM for the feature checking in here. amf12's reply is quite on-point. Web and App Activity is designed to store search activity across all Google services, and we're splitting Workspace data out since it's governed by strict data handling guarantees, with the hope that more people will feel comfortable getting the benefits of better search in Workspace without having to opt-into search history being trac…

I 100% understand your reasoning but you, as PM, need to understand that you are not alone in the room: there is a huge gorilla in the room. Office 365. Did you consider how this might be used by Office 365 sales people to convince exiting users to migrate to Office 365? Do you really think their sales and marketing is not updating their notes with this?

Re: Google to turn on activity tracking for many users who turned it off

#310

Post by bencollier49 »

gobip wrote: post #213
evocatus wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for confirming that Google is no longer run by the same people I trusted (at least, somewhat more than I do now) over a decade ago. I encourage everyone to make the leap to DDG or some other search engine that doesn't just treat you as a data cow to be milked for your precious, precious "insights." Even GMail is no longer an attractive proposition - the risk of being locked out (perhaps, even automatically!) o…

What do you use in replacement for GMail?

Fastmail is great.
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