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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#351

Post by _heimdall »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Watch your step on that slipper slope

I don't have enough experience with the technical challenges of getting a good signal from a phone's tiny GPS antenna inside a vehicle, but that difficulty shouldn't give a company the right to violate privacy. If hardware is limited, make it better or make the limitation clear to the user and let them decide if they want to give extra data to allow a better experience.

We've had good enough navigation in mobile phones for years, why would they suddenly need to make this change now? And why can't I just keep the slightly worse experience if I prefer GPS-only location?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#352

Post by [deleted] »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

[deleted]

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#353

Post by walterbell »

vinay427 wrote: post #342
walterbell wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very unfortunate, since HERE maps allows offline maps. We need a public registry of apps that embed tracking SDKs. And iOS needs an outbound firewall, now that it is shipping an App Privacy Report.

> And iOS needs an outbound firewall This can already easily be added through third-party apps. Would a system-wide firewall be a worthwhile improvement? I suppose it would help to have it enabled by default for users who wouldn’t install a tracker firewall app afterwards.

Is there an iOS 3rd-party app which can provide on-device outbound firewalling across all apps?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#354

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

dylan604 wrote: post #208
Bancakes wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the point where Google's failures to release working, marketable, and financially successful projects are causing them to leech off freeware. Remember openstreetmaps is also free. I fully support freeware being paywalled as that would decimate FAMANG's userbase.

If I ask Google Maps to provide my cycling directions, I get multiple options depending on destination. If I ask Apple Maps, I get an apology that directions are not available in my area. I don't think Googs is using openstreetmaps data

I don’t think Apple Maps use OSM correctly, otherwise they wouldn’t suggest me walking over a bridge that has been disused and partially disassembled a decade ago. OSMAnd doesn’t do that, for example.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#355

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

floatingatoll wrote: post #253
philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

That's probably a violation of the App Store Review Guidelines; you're not allowed to withdraw app functionality unrelated to notifications if a user denies notification access; Apple has various language in various places that hints at 'you can't arbitrarily take away features to compel users to opt-in' being a core intent. If you're an Apple developer, and you're willing to stake that claim with Apple, you can repo…

It’s not a violation if the CEO of Apple is on “having lunches together” terms with the CEO of Amazon.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#356

Post by phh »

yojo wrote: post #189
moritonal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

Google is a large monopoly that subsidizes “free” products to burn a thousand mile clearing around their money engine. If Google maps was not free, there would be more of a market for competing mapping products. A mapping product has a natural intersection with advertisements - a non-negligible number of mapped trips are commercial in nature, and can thus catch consumers right before the moment of purchase. This migh…

Thank you :-) I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I'm sad not seeing it reported more often.

I consider that Google Maps being free stagnated the maps market, and stopped any innovation from happening. Often when I say this, I get "But OpenStreetMap". When only volunteers can compete, that's a definite proof something's wrong.

(though arguably Google Maps did improve a bit over time, while gmail really didn't at all)

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#357

Post by lc5G »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #300
dreamcompiler wrote: post #186

Here we go again. Users desperately need an abstraction layer in Android that can spoof sensor data on a per-application basis. In this case, the spoofing layer could be set up such that whenever Google Maps uses the Android API to ask "Is wifi location sensing turned on" the spoofing layer would say "Yes." When GM asks "What wifi networks are around?" the spoofing layer would say "None." (Even better would be for it…

Xprivacy basically did this. I supported the developer by buying the "pro" version and he promptly stopped maintaining it...and started a new project that was substantially more complicated/difficult to use, requiring writing blocking rules by hand...or paying him for the "pro" service that included 'recipes' for blocks. Which users of the old app didn't get. Fuck you, Marcel Bokhorst.

I do not know about this specific case and I have not used XPrivacy but I want to chime in here and say

Thank you, Marcel Bokhorst

Your NetGuard (https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard) and FairEmail (https://github.com/M66B/FairEmail) apps are great. They are high quality, open source and contain none of the dark patterns that mobile is plagued with. They are available to download from Github, F-Droid and the Playstore. There are paid premium features to support you but if I wanted to I could still compile the app myself to unlock them.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#358

Post by gerash »

wildfire wrote: post #312
gerash wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if an app knows your exact lat long after 30s of spending battery power there's no privacy issue but if it uses wifi SSIDs around you to do the job in 2s with less power it's a breach of privacy?

Why not let the user decide what their personal privacy trade-off is? That is, fundamentally, what the original post is about.

Because it adds to the software complexity. several boolean toggles for deciding what to incorporate into the localization algorithm: one toggle for GPS, another for wifi, Bluetooth, cell tower, barometer, etc. and fusing these in all the various combination, testing them, etc.

and after doing all that users will mess up their config and then complain that this app sucks not knowing someone on HN had this feature request for "privacy" reasons even though it's pretty unclear to me what privacy is being gained here.

Apple products generally don't give the user much choice and decide what's right for the UX and it's served them well

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#359

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

"Now, enter a new update, I can no longer navigate with Google Maps, unless full location tracking is on."

Sounds like accepting the new update does not always mean there is an improvement for the user, or the negatives may outweigh the positives.

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