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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#181

Post by app4soft »

LoveGracePeace wrote: post #168
uneekname wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone have a favorite that has worked well for them?

OsmAnd+ has worked great for us for several years.

I use OsmAnd~ 4.0.x[0], F-Droid packges of OsmAnd+, under Android 5.x for three years already for bike journeys.

Sadly, since OsmAnd+ 4.1.x it requires Android 6+ to work.

Looking inside changelog of OsmAnd+ I really can't understand why Android 5.x support was dropped.

Actually I can't decide where to move next after OsmAnd: Organic Maps[1], Pocket Maps[2] or something else.

Also from-time-to-time tested Navit[3], but its GUI is far away from what I'm looking for.

[0] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/net.osmand.plus?rep...

[1] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/app.organicmaps?rep...

[2] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/com.junjunguo.pocke...

[3] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/index/apk/org.navitproject.na...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#182

Post by dzhiurgis »

dTal wrote: post #111
luckydata wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so nobody will ever sniff them then. This is not an answer to the question.

Obviously they're concerned that their own phone will sniff them.

But what's the problem with revealing your SSID/mac address to Google or anyone else?

Also - it's still probably possible with satellites or extra sensitive gear (sats already monitor marine AIS).

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#183

Post by Razengan »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

Please tell me this comment was written by some Google AI..

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#184

Post by dsl »

dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing

But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons.

Heck, we are on the verge of a major world conflict where GPS accuracy may be degraded intentionally by the US or jammed by other forces.

Edit: Navigation is used in situations other than racing down the autobahn at 100 mph. Wifi triangulation is used when you are doing 20 mph on a busy street and need to be in the right lane to make a turn, or when you are walking down the street and need to know which unmarked door is the business you are looking for.

Here is some background on why GPS is shit in urban environments: https://vitalalert.com/markets/positioning-smart-cities/3d-p...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#185

Post by dzhiurgis »

osrec wrote: post #74
dzhiurgis wrote: post #67

I don't like this being forced on you, but who the hell cares about wifi/bt SSID sniffing? What's so bad about collecting it? You are literally broadcasting it yourself and on most devices you can't even turn broadcasting off anymore.

On a localised basis, it is perhaps not so bad, however at a higher level, it allows you to piece together a huge amount of info, including grouping members of households etc. Honestly, it's not a great piece of info to be leaking, if you value your privacy.

> grouping members of households

How does GPS location not achieve same..?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#186

Post by dreamcompiler »

Here we go again. Users desperately need an abstraction layer in Android that can spoof sensor data on a per-application basis. In this case, the spoofing layer could be set up such that whenever Google Maps uses the Android API to ask "Is wifi location sensing turned on" the spoofing layer would say "Yes." When GM asks "What wifi networks are around?" the spoofing layer would say "None." (Even better would be for it to just make up a bunch of random wifi SSIDs to pollute Google's wifi database with noise.)

I have several other apps (Twitter for example) who are able to tell that I have notifications for them turned off, and consequently they bug me to turn on notifications. I need a spoofing layer that tells Twitter "notifications are turned on" even when they're off, because if the app can tell some feature is turned off it will bug me or in some cases fail to work at all. So it's also critically important that there be no way for applications to figure out that the spoofing layer is in place.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#187

Post by [deleted] »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

[deleted]

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#188

Post by NoPicklez »

steve_taylor wrote: post #175
moritonal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

It’s not free when you’re the product.

Great job regurgitating that line

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#189

Post by yojo »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

Google is a large monopoly that subsidizes “free” products to burn a thousand mile clearing around their money engine.

If Google maps was not free, there would be more of a market for competing mapping products.

A mapping product has a natural intersection with advertisements - a non-negligible number of mapped trips are commercial in nature, and can thus catch consumers right before the moment of purchase. This might prove fertile ground for a new competitor.

So Google gives maps away, and anyone who wants to compete has to compete with free, and starts with a tremendous data disadvantage.

Through this lens, requiring you to disclose more data makes sense. They strengthen their data moat around the free product, which in turn protects their dominant position in ads.

I would like to see regulators crack down on this kind of anti-competitive behavior.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#190

Post by xg15 »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Lane specific driving directions?

How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

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